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#11
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 06:36:07 UTC, Chris Rollings
wrote: : Regretably, Mr Johnson is right. Ah, how often I hear that. : There are no longer : any such things as single seat, two seat or motor glider : records - just Open Class, 15 meter and Feminine on : the British National and World lists plus Standard : and (I think) 20 metre on the UK Local list. Does the Goodhart flight get the 20m free distance record? Ian |
#12
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Well said Chris,
The records being made at present in gliders with an engine "opt out" are in no way comparable to the same flight without an engine. Equally why we maintain "feminine" records in this day and age is beyond me. Andy Henderson Chris Rollings wrote in message ... Wally, Regretably, Mr Johnson is right. There are no longer any such things as single seat, two seat or motor glider records - just Open Class, 15 meter and Feminine on the British National and World lists plus Standard and (I think) 20 metre on the UK Local list. Care to join me on a campaigne to restore the distinctions? I, for one think Russell's 1000 km flight on Friday was of greater merit than the first UK 1000 km. One pilot working at it non stop for eleven and a half hours, compared to two pilots sharing the load for twelve hours. I have the greatest admiration for the terrific flights that have been done in Argentina in the last few years, but I will respect even more the pilot who does the same thing solo and without an engine. Chris Rollings At 22:00 27 June 2004, Walter Kahn wrote: Mr. Johnson has got it wrong yet again - I assume that Gordon and his co-pilot will have difficulty in claiming Nick Goodhart's record as his is the single seater goal flight record which, of course, still stands. Incidentally Nick also remains the current World Gliding Two-seater Champion. It has been reported that some people are keen to revive this class again. Well done Gordon, Nimbus or whatever, well done all the guys who did great things on Super Friday. When you consider that Gordon was towed off at 0345 and one of the Lasham pilots completed his 750k and landed back at Lasham at 2130 - it was one hell of a day! Wally Kahn In article , Ian Johnston writes On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:04:23 UTC, Gav Goudie wrote: : Nimbus : 3D completed a declared goal of Aboyne (Scotland) to : Lasham, (Hampshire). Does that mean that some rotten, unspeakable cad has taken Goodhart's Lasham to Portmoak record? If so, I am really disappointed - sorry guys, but doing it in a Skylark 3 is much, much, much, much more of an achievement than using a Nimbus 3D. Seriously, I hope they have the decency not to claim the record. Ian -- Walter Kahn |
#13
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When Klaus Ohlmann talked about his Argentinian record
flights at the BGA conference a few years back, I believe he said that having spent all day at 20,000+ feet the engine in the Stemme would be highly unlikely to start. Hence there is no more 'opt out' than if the flight had been done in a pure sailplane, and the aachievement is no less valid. At 12:42 28 June 2004, Andy Henderson wrote: Well said Chris, The records being made at present in gliders with an engine 'opt out' are in no way comparable to the same flight without an engine. Equally why we maintain 'feminine' records in this day and age is beyond me. Andy Henderson Chris Rollings wrote in message news:... Wally, Regretably, Mr Johnson is right. There are no longer any such things as single seat, two seat or motor glider records - just Open Class, 15 meter and Feminine on the British National and World lists plus Standard and (I think) 20 metre on the UK Local list. Care to join me on a campaigne to restore the distinctions? I, for one think Russell's 1000 km flight on Friday was of greater merit than the first UK 1000 km. One pilot working at it non stop for eleven and a half hours, compared to two pilots sharing the load for twelve hours. I have the greatest admiration for the terrific flights that have been done in Argentina in the last few years, but I will respect even more the pilot who does the same thing solo and without an engine. Chris Rollings At 22:00 27 June 2004, Walter Kahn wrote: Mr. Johnson has got it wrong yet again - I assume that Gordon and his co-pilot will have difficulty in claiming Nick Goodhart's record as his is the single seater goal flight record which, of course, still stands. Incidentally Nick also remains the current World Gliding Two-seater Champion. It has been reported that some people are keen to revive this class again. Well done Gordon, Nimbus or whatever, well done all the guys who did great things on Super Friday. When you consider that Gordon was towed off at 0345 and one of the Lasham pilots completed his 750k and landed back at Lasham at 2130 - it was one hell of a day! Wally Kahn In article , Ian Johnston writes On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:04:23 UTC, Gav Goudie wrote: : Nimbus : 3D completed a declared goal of Aboyne (Scotland) to : Lasham, (Hampshire). Does that mean that some rotten, unspeakable cad has taken Goodhart's Lasham to Portmoak record? If so, I am really disappointed - sorry guys, but doing it in a Skylark 3 is much, much, much, much more of an achievement than using a Nimbus 3D. Seriously, I hope they have the decency not to claim the record. Ian -- Walter Kahn |
#14
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That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificent
flight is not the same as one without an engine. Are you saying that in all of Klaus's previous practise flights at these heights he never started the engine to get home because the flight 'wasn't on'? I think not. Andy Henderson At 14:18 28 June 2004, Alan Irving wrote: When Klaus Ohlmann talked about his Argentinian record flights at the BGA conference a few years back, I believe he said that having spent all day at 20,000+ feet the engine in the Stemme would be highly unlikely to start. Hence there is no more 'opt out' than if the flight had been done in a pure sailplane, and the aachievement is no less valid. At 12:42 28 June 2004, Andy Henderson wrote: Well said Chris, The records being made at present in gliders with an engine 'opt out' are in no way comparable to the same flight without an engine. Equally why we maintain 'feminine' records in this day and age is beyond me. Andy Henderson Chris Rollings wrote in message news:... Wally, Regretably, Mr Johnson is right. There are no longer any such things as single seat, two seat or motor glider records - just Open Class, 15 meter and Feminine on the British National and World lists plus Standard and (I think) 20 metre on the UK Local list. Care to join me on a campaigne to restore the distinctions? I, for one think Russell's 1000 km flight on Friday was of greater merit than the first UK 1000 km. One pilot working at it non stop for eleven and a half hours, compared to two pilots sharing the load for twelve hours. I have the greatest admiration for the terrific flights that have been done in Argentina in the last few years, but I will respect even more the pilot who does the same thing solo and without an engine. Chris Rollings At 22:00 27 June 2004, Walter Kahn wrote: Mr. Johnson has got it wrong yet again - I assume that Gordon and his co-pilot will have difficulty in claiming Nick Goodhart's record as his is the single seater goal flight record which, of course, still stands. Incidentally Nick also remains the current World Gliding Two-seater Champion. It has been reported that some people are keen to revive this class again. Well done Gordon, Nimbus or whatever, well done all the guys who did great things on Super Friday. When you consider that Gordon was towed off at 0345 and one of the Lasham pilots completed his 750k and landed back at Lasham at 2130 - it was one hell of a day! Wally Kahn In article , Ian Johnston writes On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:04:23 UTC, Gav Goudie wrote: : Nimbus : 3D completed a declared goal of Aboyne (Scotland) to : Lasham, (Hampshire). Does that mean that some rotten, unspeakable cad has taken Goodhart's Lasham to Portmoak record? If so, I am really disappointed - sorry guys, but doing it in a Skylark 3 is much, much, much, much more of an achievement than using a Nimbus 3D. Seriously, I hope they have the decency not to claim the record. Ian -- Walter Kahn |
#15
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Andy,I hate to single you out, but that statement really
bothers me.What if Klaus, instead of flying a motorglider, had hired a dozen crews complete with trailers and helicopters to handle the retreives along his route. Would you also consider it less of an acheivement than if he only had one crew at the home airport?What the motorglider does is give the (relatively) ordinary pilot the opportunity to explore areas and work conditions that are a bit more difficult logistically. Last November, I flew a 100km world record speed flight. I couldn't have done it without the motor as there wasn't a towplane available at the airport. Also, had a towplane been available, I may not have taken the tow to 13000 MSL (nearly 8K AGL) due to perceived cost and not wanting to inconvenience the next person in line waiting for a tow.Anyone who thinks the engine provides an 'out' from wrecking the glider has not flown one of these sailplanes seriously. What the motor provides me is the same confidence and frame of mind as a crew driving a very fast car and always within easy contact to come and get me out of that field I'm about to start the engine over. So far, my engine has always started, but I never trust it to.In the USA, national recods do separate motorgliders from the rest. Aside from the logistics of the very early launch and connecting with the wave, I don't think Kempton Izuno ever thought about the engine on his 1000 mile flight in the Sierra earlier this year. I pretty much don't on over 90% of my flights. But when I do, it's always AFTER I've picked a likely landing area.At 15:12 28 June 2004, Andrew Henderson wrote:That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificentflight is not the same as one without an engine. Tom Serkowski ASH-26E To email me, place '@' after Tom, and append '.com' |
#16
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Andy,I hate to single you out, but that statement really
bothers me.What if Klaus, instead of flying a motorglider, had hired a dozen crews complete with trailers and helicopters to handle the retreives along his route. Would you also consider it less of an acheivement than if he only had one crew at the home airport?What the motorglider does is give the (relatively) ordinary pilot the opportunity to explore areas and work conditions that are a bit more difficult logistically. Last November, I flew a 100km world record speed flight. I couldn't have done it without the motor as there wasn't a towplane available at the airport. Also, had a towplane been available, I may not have taken the tow to 13000 MSL (nearly 8K AGL) due to perceived cost and not wanting to inconvenience the next person in line waiting for a tow.Anyone who thinks the engine provides an 'out' from wrecking the glider has not flown one of these sailplanes seriously. What the motor provides me is the same confidence and frame of mind as a crew driving a very fast car and always within easy contact to come and get me out of that field I'm about to start the engine over. So far, my engine has always started, but I never trust it to.In the USA, national recods do separate motorgliders from the rest. Aside from the logistics of the very early launch and connecting with the wave, I don't think Kempton Izuno ever thought about the engine on his 1000 mile flight in the Sierra earlier this year. I pretty much don't on over 90% of my flights. But when I do, it's always AFTER I've picked a likely landing area.At 15:12 28 June 2004, Andrew Henderson wrote:That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificentflight is not the same as one without an engine. Tom Serkowski ASH-26E To email me, place '@' after Tom, and append '.com' |
#17
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Andy,I hate to single you out, but that statement really
bothers me.What if Klaus, instead of flying a motorglider, had hired a dozen crews complete with trailers and helicopters to handle the retreives along his route. Would you also consider it less of an acheivement than if he only had one crew at the home airport?What the motorglider does is give the (relatively) ordinary pilot the opportunity to explore areas and work conditions that are a bit more difficult logistically. Last November, I flew a 100km world record speed flight. I couldn't have done it without the motor as there wasn't a towplane available at the airport. Also, had a towplane been available, I may not have taken the tow to 13000 MSL (nearly 8K AGL) due to perceived cost and not wanting to inconvenience the next person in line waiting for a tow.Anyone who thinks the engine provides an 'out' from wrecking the glider has not flown one of these sailplanes seriously. What the motor provides me is the same confidence and frame of mind as a crew driving a very fast car and always within easy contact to come and get me out of that field I'm about to start the engine over. So far, my engine has always started, but I never trust it to.In the USA, national recods do separate motorgliders from the rest. Aside from the logistics of the very early launch and connecting with the wave, I don't think Kempton Izuno ever thought about the engine on his 1000 mile flight in the Sierra earlier this year. I pretty much don't on over 90% of my flights. But when I do, it's always AFTER I've picked a likely landing area.At 15:12 28 June 2004, Andrew Henderson wrote:That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificentflight is not the same as one without an engine. Tom Serkowski ASH-26E To email me, place '@' after Tom, and append '.com' |
#18
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Hm,I just started using gliderpilot.net instead of google
to view RAS.Looks like it strips all line breaks and decided to post my message more than once.-Tom Tom Serkowski ASH-26E To email me, place '@' after Tom, and append '.com' |
#19
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Speculation on whose part? I'm merely reporting what
Ohlmann himself said. Perhaps he was speculating that the engine wouldn't start after spending 15 hours at sub zero temperatures - do you actually think it would? Seeing how meticulous he was in all other facets of his preparation, I imagine he might have tried the motor during a local flight to confirm that it wouldn't start. But that's just speculation... At 15:12 28 June 2004, Andrew Henderson wrote: That's speculation, and the record whilst a magnificent flight is not the same as one without an engine. Are you saying that in all of Klaus's previous practise flights at these heights he never started the engine to get home because the flight 'wasn't on'? I think not. Andy Henderson At 14:18 28 June 2004, Alan Irving wrote: When Klaus Ohlmann talked about his Argentinian record flights at the BGA conference a few years back, I believe he said that having spent all day at 20,000+ feet the engine in the Stemme would be highly unlikely to start. Hence there is no more 'opt out' than if the flight had been done in a pure sailplane, and the aachievement is no less valid. |
#20
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Hm,I just started using gliderpilot.net instead of google
to view RAS.Looks like it strips all line breaks and decided to post my message more than once.-Tom Tom Serkowski ASH-26E To email me, place '@' after Tom, and append '.com' |
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