A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Soaring not compatible with modern society?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old May 7th 18, 08:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
K m
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:18:05 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
When I was flying my Nimbus4, I used airports as alternates. I really did not want to risk putting that bird anywhere and in over 400 hours, virtually all XC time, I never put it in a field, other than an airfield.


This is a good point. I would not want to try an off airport landout in an open ship but a flapped 15M will fit just about anywhere. I think a lot depends on what a pilot is doing. On an OLC day I try to stick to airports but in a contest you take what you can get.
Sorry if I had the original comment out of context.
Kirk
  #32  
Old May 7th 18, 09:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

Gliding today is too expensive for modern society. But not in cash terms, it's too expensive in time.

No instant gratification.

I read somewhere that there are more pilots flying and racing gliders on Condor than in real life.

Kirk
66
  #33  
Old May 7th 18, 10:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

I have also noticed that many outlanding sites in the west where I could land an ASW-24, I could not, without damage, land an 18 meter ASG-29.

Airports are best.


On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 12:30:27 PM UTC-7, K m wrote:
This is a good point. I would not want to try an off airport landout in an open ship but a flapped 15M will fit just about anywhere. I think a lot depends on what a pilot is doing. On an OLC day I try to stick to airports but in a contest you take what you can get.
Sorry if I had the original comment out of context.
Kirk


  #34  
Old May 7th 18, 11:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

No good place to post, no slight on you......

What did you learn, what do you practice?

I am tired of the, "land wherever, ground crew drags the ship to next launch" attitude.

Long time pilot.
Ex CFI-G.
Many off airport landings. Worst was a gear door in a contest that was fixed for next dat
  #35  
Old May 8th 18, 01:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

Soaring is very expensive: specially the initial investment. I’m in my mid 20’s; it cost me $4,500 for a private pilot certificate, and I was lucky to buy a standard cirrus In great shape for less than $12,000; plus 900$ insurance and around 3000$ in tows a year. I could have paid my car loan, or put a down payment for a house... I been hanglidng for a couple years, so i jumped into sailplanes with both feet since I was already addicted to soaring, but the average young individual that takes a demo flight might not be able to waste his money on soaring.
  #36  
Old May 8th 18, 02:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

My 14 y.o. asked to fly gliders. Club fees were $400 and tows $50 each. His 14 flights cost $1100. This season his dues were $200 with tows still costing $50. He has access to club ships (1-23, l-23, 2-33) and has been offered use of a few private ships. This season he will spend about $1,000 to fly.

When he played soccer the club fees were $1500 per srason plus the cost of travel, lodging for tournaments, fuel, food, etc. soccer cost almost $5k each year. He played for 6 years.

As Kirk said, soaring is not expensive in terms of cash. The expense is time. As others have mentioned hanging out at an airfield in hot temps, bugs, snakes, and other critters isn't family friendly or even just hang out friendly. Add in risk aversion and from the outside soaring doesn't look like much fun. Flying isn't difficult but it does require dedication and consistency to learn. The lack of instant gratification doesn't help.

I don't believe expense is a barrier to entry. Do some research and compare the entry costs and participation cost to other leisure time activities. Something's besides money are keeping people away from having a go. Those who choose to spend money on any activity make a conscious decision to do so. Regardless of the cash outlay there needs to be perceived value in the expedature. To many, soaring might be low value even if it were free and thus not a valuable expenditure of time.

As society becomes more risk adverse anything viewed as risky becomes less attractive which is part of Gregg's original post.
  #37  
Old May 8th 18, 12:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 155
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

If your looking for the reason our sport is contracting and not attracting a younger audience - it is that we are loosing the competition for younger interest - IT IS A COMPETITION as it has always been - we are very poor at marketing and making our sport attractive. So we attract only those who were already pre-sold early in life or by a pilot they have a relationship with.

It is a sport that requires years to get good - when you begin it you get beaten by a bunch of old guys - the venues are all pretty spartan - there are tons of rules - and not allot of other kids to play with.

To blame Society is a pretty easy way out and once you blame the universe you don't have to look for a solution - you can just sit and whine about how the world is so much worse today and getting worse every day.

As some smart guy once said - if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

my $.02
WH
  #39  
Old May 9th 18, 03:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 478
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

Should the Penn State Outing Club blame themselves? I'm not saying soaring couldn't do things better. But in the original post I meant societal attitudes towards risk, not individuals tolerance to the slow club training environment.

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:56:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

If your looking for the reason our sport is contracting and not attracting a younger audience - it is that we are loosing the competition for younger interest - IT IS A COMPETITION as it has always been - we are very poor at marketing and making our sport attractive. So we attract only those who were already pre-sold early in life or by a pilot they have a relationship with.

It is a sport that requires years to get good - when you begin it you get beaten by a bunch of old guys - the venues are all pretty spartan - there are tons of rules - and not allot of other kids to play with.

To blame Society is a pretty easy way out and once you blame the universe you don't have to look for a solution - you can just sit and whine about how the world is so much worse today and getting worse every day.

As some smart guy once said - if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

my $.02
WH


  #40  
Old May 10th 18, 02:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 6:34:56 PM UTC-7, wrote:
My 14 y.o. asked to fly gliders. Club fees were $400 and tows $50 each. His 14 flights cost $1100. This season his dues were $200 with tows still costing $50. He has access to club ships (1-23, l-23, 2-33) and has been offered use of a few private ships. This season he will spend about $1,000 to fly.

When he played soccer the club fees were $1500 per srason plus the cost of travel, lodging for tournaments, fuel, food, etc. soccer cost almost $5k each year. He played for 6 years.

As Kirk said, soaring is not expensive in terms of cash. The expense is time. As others have mentioned hanging out at an airfield in hot temps, bugs, snakes, and other critters isn't family friendly or even just hang out friendly. Add in risk aversion and from the outside soaring doesn't look like much fun. Flying isn't difficult but it does require dedication and consistency to learn. The lack of instant gratification doesn't help.

I don't believe expense is a barrier to entry. Do some research and compare the entry costs and participation cost to other leisure time activities. Something's besides money are keeping people away from having a go. Those who choose to spend money on any activity make a conscious decision to do so. Regardless of the cash outlay there needs to be perceived value in the expedature. To many, soaring might be low value even if it were free and thus not a valuable expenditure of time.

As society becomes more risk adverse anything viewed as risky becomes less attractive which is part of Gregg's original post.


I agree with the cost analysis, but not the time part. When you travel to a soccer meet, it will take all, or most, of a weekend. Local clubs could help the situation by having lower student rates for membership. If you can attract a decent group of students, the club can increase the volume of tows, which will reduce tow cost. Presell tow packages to incentivize the parents of the kids to follow thru.

The tough situation is where there is no local club.

Tom
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue Ridge Soaring Society: R4S 2015 Jp Stewart Soaring 2 July 8th 15 09:15 PM
Sequatchie Soaring Society K Smith Soaring 3 July 17th 09 09:06 PM
Spokane Soaring Society [email protected] Soaring 2 July 18th 06 05:25 PM
Where oh Where is Llano Estacado Soaring Society ? [email protected] Soaring 8 May 24th 06 07:58 PM
Soaring Society of America National Convention, Feb 10-12 Ontario,CA Jim Skydell Home Built 1 January 31st 05 05:33 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.