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Chicago lawyers plane found in Toronto harbour



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 11th 03, 02:16 PM
Wooduuuward
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Default Chicago lawyers plane found in Toronto harbour

I heard on the radio that a small plane from Chicago went missing in the fog
during a landing attempt at the Toronto City Centre Airport.
This morning I see in the newspaper that the plane and the pilot have been
located at the bottom of Lake Ontario. The plane was a Beechcraft that could
seat six people.
There has been no known reason, as yet, as to the cause of the crash, according
to the article.
I think this type of crash may be preventable, if it was due to poor visibility, by the
construction of radio signal buoys parallel to the runways lights and a simple
receiver on board light aircraft. Or visible laser beams criss crossing over the runway.
All of this technology is available, is it not?
  #2  
Old July 11th 03, 02:51 PM
Rick Pellicciotti
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We have radio signals that parallel the runways, they are called localizers.
Light beams have been tried all the way back to before WWII without any
favorable outcomes.

Rick Pellicciotti

"Wooduuuward" wrote in message
...
I heard on the radio that a small plane from Chicago went missing in the

fog
during a landing attempt at the Toronto City Centre Airport.
This morning I see in the newspaper that the plane and the pilot have been
located at the bottom of Lake Ontario. The plane was a Beechcraft that

could
seat six people.
There has been no known reason, as yet, as to the cause of the crash,

according
to the article.
I think this type of crash may be preventable, if it was due to poor

visibility, by the
construction of radio signal buoys parallel to the runways lights and a

simple
receiver on board light aircraft. Or visible laser beams criss crossing

over the runway.
All of this technology is available, is it not?



  #3  
Old July 11th 03, 04:05 PM
Morgans
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Wooduuuward" wrote in message
...
I heard on the radio that a small plane from Chicago went missing in the

fog
during a landing attempt at the Toronto City Centre Airport.
This morning I see in the newspaper that the plane and the pilot have been
located at the bottom of Lake Ontario. The plane was a Beechcraft that

could
seat six people.
There has been no known reason, as yet, as to the cause of the crash,

according
to the article.
I think this type of crash may be preventable, if it was due to poor

visibility, by the
construction of radio signal buoys parallel to the runways lights and a

simple
receiver on board light aircraft. Or visible laser beams criss crossing

over the runway.
All of this technology is available, is it not?


Don't take this as a flame or a slam.

It is becoming more and more apparent to me (and others, I would think) that
you are new to aviation. As a place to learn, this is a great forum. I do
have a suggestion that will keep you from coming off as a know-it-all, or an
ass.

As in the case of this post, instead of suggesting a solution to a problem,
why not come out with a question, as to what is available? You will get
answers, but without making yourself look foolish.

In other words, be humble, confess that you don't know it all, and seek
answers. It will keep your reputation much less unstained.

YMMV.
--
Jim in NC


  #4  
Old July 11th 03, 09:39 PM
Ernest Christley
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Default

Wooduuuward wrote:
receiver on board light aircraft. Or visible laser beams criss crossing over the runway.
All of this technology is available, is it not?


Yes it is. It's called a VASI. If you can't see that, you can't see a
laser beam either.

--
----Because I can----
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
------------------------

  #5  
Old July 11th 03, 11:18 PM
Peter Gottlieb
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Three disagreements with what you said:

1) Whatever the statistics say, it is purely wild speculation that it was
pilot error in this case.

2) I strongly disagree that technological innovations will not help reduce
pilot errors. Technology has made a huge difference.

3) Single pilot IFR is far from "as dangerous as it gets." Plenty of
flying activities are significantly more dangerous.




"Rick Pellicciotti" wrote in message
news:3f0ee130$1@ham...
Wrong. He was instrumented rated and his airplane was instrument

equipped.
He was also a fairly accomplished aerobatic competitor and airshow pilot.
There hasn't been nor will there ever be a technological solution to pilot
error. Flying solo, in a complex airplane, in IFR conditions is about as
dangerous as it gets.

Rick Pellicciotti

"Hal Davey" wrote in message
news:uKzPa.35615$H17.10623@sccrnsc02...
Sounds like a case of a non-instrument rated pilot trying to find the

bottom
of the overcast. He did.
Cheers,
Hal Davey





  #6  
Old July 12th 03, 02:11 AM
Larry Smith
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Default


"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...
Three disagreements with what you said:

1) Whatever the statistics say, it is purely wild speculation that it was
pilot error in this case.

2) I strongly disagree that technological innovations will not help

reduce
pilot errors. Technology has made a huge difference.

3) Single pilot IFR is far from "as dangerous as it gets." Plenty of
flying activities are significantly more dangerous.




"Rick Pellicciotti" wrote in message
news:3f0ee130$1@ham...
Wrong. He was instrumented rated and his airplane was instrument

equipped.
He was also a fairly accomplished aerobatic competitor and airshow

pilot.
There hasn't been nor will there ever be a technological solution to

pilot
error. Flying solo, in a complex airplane, in IFR conditions is about

as
dangerous as it gets.

Rick Pellicciotti

"Hal Davey" wrote in message
news:uKzPa.35615$H17.10623@sccrnsc02...
Sounds like a case of a non-instrument rated pilot trying to find the

bottom
of the overcast. He did.
Cheers,
Hal Davey


Thanks for a voice of reason.


  #7  
Old July 12th 03, 02:16 AM
Larry Smith
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Default


clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:39:28 GMT, Ernest Christley
wrote:

Wooduuuward wrote:
receiver on board light aircraft. Or visible laser beams criss crossing

over the runway.
All of this technology is available, is it not?


Yes it is. It's called a VASI. If you can't see that, you can't see a
laser beam either.

Toronto Island is a tricky airport. Between the smog of Hogtown and
the weather overLlake Ontario, there are a LOT of poor visibility
days. Single Pilot IFR is not TOO dangerous if you are an accomplished
IFR pilot and familiar with the airport. You want to be GOOD at the
IFR thing. Being good takes lots of practice.
Remember the Bonanzas?
Lots of Doctors and lawyers


Nope. Not lawyers. They're fork-tailed doctor killers.

I like doctors but they are remiss at gassing up. Mostimes they run out of
fuel. Hell. One ran out of fuel and landed his B00nanza in the lot at
Epcot Center.


  #8  
Old July 12th 03, 01:57 PM
C J Campbell
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Default

Many runways have localizers or other radio aids to help aircraft land. The
most precise of these is the ILS system, which allows you to not only track
in to the runway, but also guides you down in altitude as well. GPS with
WAAS promises such precision approaches will someday be available at
airports that do not have expensive ILS equipment.

There is no such thing as a visible laser beam. In order for you to see any
kind of light, it has to be reflected off some kind of surface. If you want
to see a laser beam you have to shine it through a fog or cloud of dust of
some kind. I know that in Hollywood you can always see laser beams, but all
Hollywood movies use physics from some other universe than our own. This is
why in movies you not only see laser beams, but also bullets always flash
when they hit something, people can outrun shock waves, and people can stand
around in shorts and without oxygen masks in a cargo plane that has the
doors open in flight, but the hero needs oxygen and a protective suit the
moment he leaves the airplane. You cannot shine a laser beam at an airplane
cockpit because it might blind the pilot. The same fog or clouds that render
an airport invisible will also obscure a laser beam.


  #9  
Old July 12th 03, 03:01 PM
Jim Vadek
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Richard Riley" wrote in message
news
:There has been no known reason, as yet, as to the cause of the crash,

according
:to the article.
:I think this type of crash may be preventable, if it was due to poor

visibility, by the
:construction of radio signal buoys parallel to the runways lights and a

simple
:receiver on board light aircraft. Or visible laser beams criss crossing

over the runway.
:All of this technology is available, is it not?

Easily preventable, it just takes money. Good IFR instruments and a
rated pilot would take care of it.

The new GPS terrain aware maps, and terrain view horizions, would have
prevented it easily. But they aren't cheap.


You should offer your services to the NTSB since you know the reason for
this accident without even seeing the aircraft or knowing anything else
about the circumstances.


  #10  
Old July 12th 03, 04:44 PM
Wooduuuward
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Default

The area was fogged in at the time of the crash.

C J Campbell wrote:
snip. . .
There is no such thing as a visible laser beam. In order for you to see any
kind of light, it has to be reflected off some kind of surface. If you want
to see a laser beam you have to shine it through a fog or cloud of dust of
some kind. I know that in Hollywood you can always see laser beams, but all
Hollywood movies use physics from some other universe than our own.P

 




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