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#11
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
On Jul 5, 12:49*pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article , *a wrote: The reality is, use would have to be pretty high, for 2000 hour rental years -- that's 40 hours a week, the device alone would have to earn $10 an hour for a 3 year payback, and that contributes nothing for space and instruction time. A more realistic use rate might be 500 hours a year, device charges $40 an hour for a 3 year payback (more or less a 30% ROI, not a bad target for high risk ventures). I think I'll keep my checkbook unopened. For things where the simulator is just as good or better than a real plane (practicing instrument procedures?) then $40/hour is a great rate. But still somewhat hefty.... On the other hand, there are things I'd like to do in my airplane and would happily pay a few hundred dollars to try them in a realistic simulator. Oh yes. I'd easily pay WAY more than what I pay for actual flight time to practice takeoff aborts at difficult altitudes in a simulator good enough for the experience to translate into reality. -- Mike Ash Radio Free Earth Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon Mike, that $40 would not pay for the space rent, instructors, clerks, other overheads. I agree that many of us would pay a few hundred dollars for realistic sim of spin recovery, other outside the envelope stuff. With a safety pilot aboard I've flown to touchdown under the hood on an ILS, but man, if you don't feel the ground effect in time you're going to bounce! a half dozen approaches from the OM inbound to touchdown in zero zero in a full motion sim would be very comforting, but I'd have to feel the ground effect cushion for it to be useful for me. I'd also like to feel what it's like to have the airplane collect enough ice to be dangerous, that would have to be a 'feel' thing too. I doubt that there is a full motion sim would do a good job at showing someone a stall/spin entry -- can not do that in real life in a Mooney, but man, in a suitable airplane with an instructor aboard, what happens when the inside wing stalls in a too slow too steep turn gets your attention! We got inverted in a heart beat. That is an 'unusual attitude' I never want to face in real life. |
#12
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
"a" wrote in message ... On Jul 5, 12:49 pm, Mike Ash wrote: In article , a wrote: The reality is, use would have to be pretty high, for 2000 hour rental years -- that's 40 hours a week, the device alone would have to earn $10 an hour for a 3 year payback, and that contributes nothing for space and instruction time. A more realistic use rate might be 500 hours a year, device charges $40 an hour for a 3 year payback (more or less a 30% ROI, not a bad target for high risk ventures). I think I'll keep my checkbook unopened. For things where the simulator is just as good or better than a real plane (practicing instrument procedures?) then $40/hour is a great rate. But still somewhat hefty.... On the other hand, there are things I'd like to do in my airplane and would happily pay a few hundred dollars to try them in a realistic simulator. Oh yes. I'd easily pay WAY more than what I pay for actual flight time to practice takeoff aborts at difficult altitudes in a simulator good enough for the experience to translate into reality. -- Mike Ash Radio Free Earth Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon Mike, that $40 would not pay for the space rent, instructors, clerks, other overheads. I agree that many of us would pay a few hundred dollars for realistic sim of spin recovery, other outside the envelope stuff. With a safety pilot aboard I've flown to touchdown under the hood on an ILS, but man, if you don't feel the ground effect in time you're going to bounce! a half dozen approaches from the OM inbound to touchdown in zero zero in a full motion sim would be very comforting, but I'd have to feel the ground effect cushion for it to be useful for me. I'd also like to feel what it's like to have the airplane collect enough ice to be dangerous, that would have to be a 'feel' thing too. I doubt that there is a full motion sim would do a good job at showing someone a stall/spin entry -- can not do that in real life in a Mooney, but man, in a suitable airplane with an instructor aboard, what happens when the inside wing stalls in a too slow too steep turn gets your attention! We got inverted in a heart beat. That is an 'unusual attitude' I never want to face in real life. I know what you mean. Got my ticket in the 60's and was lucky enough to have an instructor that had an AT-6 so spins, stalls and some VERY unusual attitudes were the norm. Would not want to see them again. Perhaps a CFI will chime in here but IIRC, they do NOT teach spin recovery any longer in the US or at least, it is not required. Vic |
#13
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
On Jul 5, 5:03*pm, "Vic Baron" wrote:
"a" wrote in message ... On Jul 5, 12:49 pm, Mike Ash wrote: In article , *a wrote: The reality is, use would have to be pretty high, for 2000 hour rental years -- that's 40 hours a week, the device alone would have to earn $10 an hour for a 3 year payback, and that contributes nothing for space and instruction time. A more realistic use rate might be 500 hours a year, device charges $40 an hour for a 3 year payback (more or less a 30% ROI, not a bad target for high risk ventures). I think I'll keep my checkbook unopened. For things where the simulator is just as good or better than a real plane (practicing instrument procedures?) then $40/hour is a great rate. But still somewhat hefty.... On the other hand, there are things I'd like to do in my airplane and would happily pay a few hundred dollars to try them in a realistic simulator. Oh yes. I'd easily pay WAY more than what I pay for actual flight time to practice takeoff aborts at difficult altitudes in a simulator good enough for the experience to translate into reality. -- Mike Ash Radio Free Earth Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon Mike, that $40 would not pay for the space rent, instructors, clerks, other overheads. I agree that many of us would pay a few hundred dollars for realistic sim of spin recovery, other outside the envelope stuff. With a safety pilot aboard I've flown to touchdown under the hood on an ILS, but man, if you don't feel the ground effect in time you're going to bounce! a half dozen approaches from the OM inbound to touchdown in zero zero in a full motion sim would be very comforting, but I'd have to feel the ground effect cushion for it to be useful for me. *I'd also like to feel what it's like to have the airplane collect enough ice to be dangerous, that would have to be a 'feel' thing too. I doubt that there is a full motion sim would do a good job at showing someone a stall/spin entry -- can not do that in real life in a Mooney, but man, in a suitable airplane with an instructor aboard, what happens when the inside wing stalls in a too slow too steep turn gets your attention! We got inverted in a heart beat. That is an 'unusual attitude' I never want to face in real life. I know what you mean. Got my ticket in the 60's and was lucky enough to have an instructor that had an AT-6 so spins, stalls and some VERY unusual attitudes were the norm. *Would not want to see them again. * Perhaps a CFI will chime in here but IIRC, they do NOT teach spin recovery any longer in the US or at least, it is not required. Vic I don't think they are required --- the spin stuff I experienced was long after I was instrument rated, it was a swap, he wanted a safety pilot for instruments, I wanted some time up side down. |
#14
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
"Vic Baron" wrote in message ... Perhaps a CFI will chime in here but IIRC, they do NOT teach spin recovery any longer in the US or at least, it is not required. As far as I know, spin training is only required for the CFI certificate in the USA. Only a signoff for the training is required, spins are never part of the actual check ride. As a student pilot, I insisted on pre-solo spin training. If I ever screwed up enough to get myself into an inadvertent spin, I did not want to be required to figure out spin recovery for myself! Vaughn |
#15
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
"Vic Baron" wrote Perhaps a CFI will chime in here but IIRC, they do NOT teach spin recovery any longer in the US or at least, it is not required. It isn't hard to find an old timer instructor who teaches spins and recoveries in the course of their normal training routine. If you (anyone out there) don't have such a person, ask around; I'll bet someone knows some CFI in the area who will be happy to run you through a few spin cycles. -- Jim in NC |
#16
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
"Mike Ash" wrote in message
... Hmmm, $58,800.... For that much, I could buy my glider outright (no partnership) and pay for about 8 years of flying it. I think I'll pass.... That wouldn't quite pay for my airplane three times over. And for all that it's only "surprisingly close in most regards"... Pass. -- Geoff The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate. |
#17
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
"Morgans" wrote in message ... "Vic Baron" wrote Perhaps a CFI will chime in here but IIRC, they do NOT teach spin recovery any longer in the US or at least, it is not required. It isn't hard to find an old timer instructor who teaches spins and recoveries in the course of their normal training routine. If you (anyone out there) don't have such a person, ask around; I'll bet someone knows some CFI in the area who will be happy to run you through a few spin cycles. -- Jim in NC That was certainly true in my area the last time I looked around. Peter |
#18
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
"Mike Ash" wrote in message ... In article , a wrote: The reality is, use would have to be pretty high, for 2000 hour rental years -- that's 40 hours a week, the device alone would have to earn $10 an hour for a 3 year payback, and that contributes nothing for space and instruction time. A more realistic use rate might be 500 hours a year, device charges $40 an hour for a 3 year payback (more or less a 30% ROI, not a bad target for high risk ventures). I think I'll keep my checkbook unopened. For things where the simulator is just as good or better than a real plane (practicing instrument procedures?) then $40/hour is a great rate. But still somewhat hefty.... On the other hand, there are things I'd like to do in my airplane and would happily pay a few hundred dollars to try them in a realistic simulator. Oh yes. I'd easily pay WAY more than what I pay for actual flight time to practice takeoff aborts at difficult altitudes in a simulator good enough for the experience to translate into reality. -- Mike Ash Radio Free Earth Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon That's a pretty good example of one of the good uses of a sim for emergency procedures. I used to be an advocate for true motion, almost to the point of bigotry, after having the oportunity to try one for a few minutes years ago; but I've since come to doubt the need for any more motion than the old link trainers could provide--as far as I have been told, they could jostle around more than enough to simulate turbulence and almost certainly helped to win the war with far fewer casualties than might have otherwise been the case. Peter |
#19
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 20:14:19 -0400, vaughn
wrote: As a student pilot, I insisted on pre-solo spin training. If I ever screwed up enough to get myself into an inadvertent spin, I did not want to be required to figure out spin recovery for myself! well said. Especially figuring out spin recovery during short final, where they are more likely to occur! I was fortunate enough to be part of the student pilots where spin training was mandatory in Canada in 1999. |
#20
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Redbird's new full-motion, low-cost flight simulator
"Dimitri P." wrote in message newsp.vs0x00zt8gnu4d@main... On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 20:14:19 -0400, vaughn wrote: As a student pilot, I insisted on pre-solo spin training. If I ever screwed up enough to get myself into an inadvertent spin, I did not want to be required to figure out spin recovery for myself! well said. Especially figuring out spin recovery during short final, where they are more likely to occur! Huh? If you are on short final, you had better recover quickly from the pre-stall, well before the actual stall and wing-drop! Because on short final there isn't enough sky beneath you for a spin recovery. In fact, a befuddled pilot may not be able to recover from pattern height at all. One of my main take-home impressions from my pre-solo spin training was the loss of altitude involved in the stall-spin-recovery sequence. It made me understand the importance of maintaining airspeed and staying coordinated in the pattern. Vaughn |
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