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#1
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gyro builders
New interest and would like to hear from gyro builders or flyers. Am
considering Vortech Sparrow UL gyro kit. Thanks, Dick ps-already queried r.a.rotorcraft |
#2
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gyro builders
Dick wrote: New interest and would like to hear from gyro builders or flyers. Am considering Vortech Sparrow UL gyro kit. Thanks, Dick ps-already queried r.a.rotorcraft Go to www.rotaryforum.com. That's where all the gyro-heads hang out. Very active Forum with people who know what they're talking about.........most of them. |
#3
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gyro builders
Dick wrote: New interest and would like to hear from gyro builders or flyers. Am considering Vortech Sparrow UL gyro kit. Thanks, Dick ps-already queried r.a.rotorcraft Go to www.rotaryforum.com. That's where all the gyro-heads hang out. Very active Forum with people who know what they're talking about.........most of them. |
#4
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gyro builders
I bought an RAF 2000 GTX-SE in 2000 and was an easy kit to build, but then
Im in the aviation business. If I wasnt I would touch gyros with a 10 foot pole. They are fussy aircraft to setup and fly. You have to stay on top of a gyro in flight. It takes 100% concentration 100% of the time. It gets easier after time and becomes natural. I you have no rotorcraft expereience then go for an intro flight before you buy a gyro. A lot of people build these things and after a few hours of intense fear and overwelming flying sell the aircraft before they get over their heads and kill themselves. All the propaganda says gyros are easy to fly. Gyros are not easy to fly safely. Because it is a rotorcraft with a semi rigid rotor system the RAF is a very menuverable aircraft and a pleasure to fly, but the tradeoff is an unstable aircraft in the hands of the inexperienced. As for the Sparrow, its just an abortion created from the RAF. If you live in Canada there are no flight instructors, you will have to go to the US. Dont know who would teach you in a Sparrow but there are 4 flight instructors teaching in the RAF. I live in Canada and have 30 hours in RAF gyros, 5 in my own bird. I dont fly with a horizonal stab and never felt the need for one. You learn to fly a gyro properly and you stay alive. Its all airspeed and altitude, pretty basic. If you think you are going to fly it like a helicopter you will be dead! I will respond to all questions, Cheers, Loxley. P.S. I have 30 hours dual and probably need another 10 to get the landings down. Fixed wing pilots will have to unlearn some bad habits when training on flying gyros. I didnt have a pilots licence at all so I am a little quicker, never learned bad habits. According to one gyro instructor helicopter pilots are even worse! |
#5
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gyro builders
You go on about how unstable the RAF is and then you state you don't
see a need for a horizontal stab. I flew an RAF without a stab for 85 hours and was about to get rid of it because of the nose pitching the wrong way in drafts. I was then enlightened at www.rotaryforum.com and added a stab. In fact, I started making them and sold over 30 of them. That made it a completely different animal and I then went on to fly almost 500 hours in it. Near the end, I had it converted to a center-line-thrust Sparrowhawk configuration. I then got the hots for a McCulloch J2 and sold it to get the J2. Take a flight in a Sparrowhawk and you'll say that gyros are not hard to fly. It's the instability of the stock RAF that makes it hard to fly. I could have read a magazine and eaten a sandwich while flying the stable version. Do yourself a favor and stop listening to the aerodynamically-challenged CFIs of RAF and add a stab. You'll wonder why you hesitated. Don't take my word for it, go to www.rotaryforum and do a search on the RAF and stabs. The RAF in stock configuration has killed more people in bunt-overs than I want to count. At the least, a stab helps prevent this. |
#6
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gyro builders
Loxley: Your comments about the RAF are interesting. Back in 1965 I built
a Benson with a 90hp Mac engine and since dual was not possible, self instruction was the only way. Total towed time was 45 min before lighting off the Mac. While there were some interesting interludes with learning about blade tracking and balancing,(that we learned while towing) I was able to solo the thing without doing any damage to myself or ship. Further I found it easy to fly (after adjusting to the control lag) and actually flew it with my knees while taking photos with a hand held camera. Zero roll landings were relatively easy to do. Recently while reviewing my log book for my helo add-on I found an entry where I did an airshow in Northern Calif and my TT in gyro was 12hrs. I flew it in winds sufficient for vertical take-offs and found it much easier to handle in those conditions than the "Stuck Wings" that I had flown. My wife also learned to fly the thing. We didn't find it hard to fly and our primary rule was weight in seat; don't lose it. With the outboard motor fuel tank located below the seat we obviously didn't have a centerline thrust and the little rock guard didn't qualify as a horizontal stabilizer either. However comparing to the RAF we didn't have a bunch of body work hanging out in the breeze in front of the mast . I still think that the Benson was the easiest and probably safest thing that I've flown. I've heard others talk about the apparent marginal stability of the RAF. I did take a ride a number of years ago with a high time RAF instructor when I was considering buying one. It used more runway than an overloaded Cessna 150 on a hot day and that turned me off. I also had a demo ride in the Sparrow prototype and found it very stable. We flew hands off into a thermal and only got the elevator ride. I hated the extremely stiff controls though and my right shoulder was hanging out in the breeze. (I'm 6' and 180#) My Baby Belle helicopter is harder to learn to fly and dang sure isn't as stable as the Benson, but I can takeoff from my 40X40 helipad. I found the gyros cheaper and easier to fly than the helo and since they are in autorotation all the time, I believe safer. My only complaint of the gyros is the runway requirement for takeoff. That said, I saw a video of Larry Neal's Butterfly do a 20' roll and lift off. Who knows, I may be back in one again now that they are included in the Sport Pilot category. Your comments about the RAF make me think that the Benson is orders of magnitude easier to learn to fly. -- Stuart Fields Experimental Helo magazine P. O. Box 1585 Inyokern, CA 93527 (760) 377-4478 (760) 408-9747 general and layout cell (760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell www.vkss.com www.experimentalhelo.com wrote in message ... I bought an RAF 2000 GTX-SE in 2000 and was an easy kit to build, but then Im in the aviation business. If I wasnt I would touch gyros with a 10 foot pole. They are fussy aircraft to setup and fly. You have to stay on top of a gyro in flight. It takes 100% concentration 100% of the time. It gets easier after time and becomes natural. I you have no rotorcraft expereience then go for an intro flight before you buy a gyro. A lot of people build these things and after a few hours of intense fear and overwelming flying sell the aircraft before they get over their heads and kill themselves. All the propaganda says gyros are easy to fly. Gyros are not easy to fly safely. Because it is a rotorcraft with a semi rigid rotor system the RAF is a very menuverable aircraft and a pleasure to fly, but the tradeoff is an unstable aircraft in the hands of the inexperienced. As for the Sparrow, its just an abortion created from the RAF. If you live in Canada there are no flight instructors, you will have to go to the US. Dont know who would teach you in a Sparrow but there are 4 flight instructors teaching in the RAF. I live in Canada and have 30 hours in RAF gyros, 5 in my own bird. I dont fly with a horizonal stab and never felt the need for one. You learn to fly a gyro properly and you stay alive. Its all airspeed and altitude, pretty basic. If you think you are going to fly it like a helicopter you will be dead! I will respond to all questions, Cheers, Loxley. P.S. I have 30 hours dual and probably need another 10 to get the landings down. Fixed wing pilots will have to unlearn some bad habits when training on flying gyros. I didnt have a pilots licence at all so I am a little quicker, never learned bad habits. According to one gyro instructor helicopter pilots are even worse! |
#7
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gyro builders
I dont bother replying to Ken because he is very anty RAF. You can tell by
his rants. He rolled his bird over a while ago. Dont care what he flies now. The Raf with 2 people on board does eat up a lot of runway. I can barely get to circuit height to set up for a landing. Mine is the carberated 2.2. My instructor flies the 2.5 Subaru and the 4 blade prop. It is a handfull on takeoff. My instructor also has the new RAF stabilator but as I said there is no need for horizonal stabes. It makes for a nice trim but why not just learn to fly the aircraft properly. It is a 3500 dollar option that really isnt needed. Cheers, Loxley. |
#8
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gyro builders
Loxley, can you grasp the fact that I flew an RAF for 500 hours, 85
without a stab and the rest with? True, I had no use for the liars at RAF. If you can't get to pattern height with a 2.2, you obviously are doing something wrong. Have you adjusted your prop pitch correctly? The stock RAF is a handful on takeoff because it doesn't have a horizontal stabilizer. I can't think of much that flies without a horizontal stab, including birds. I agree, the stabilator is worthless as anything that increases safety, but a stab is a necessity. I rolled my gyro taking off from a dirt road that had a soft muddy spot on the left side. I didn't notice it, even after walking it. A dumb and expensive error, but what does that have to do with flying an unstable, dangerously configured gyro? You're not learning to fly the RAF properly, you're trying to learn to fly it improperly, in an unstable configuration. Hope you add a stab or sell it before you kill yourself. |
#9
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gyro builders
Loxley, can you grasp the fact that I flew an RAF for 500 hours, 85
without a stab and the rest with? True, I had no use for the liars at RAF. If you can't get to pattern height with a 2.2, you obviously are doing something wrong. Have you adjusted your prop pitch correctly? The stock RAF is a handful on takeoff because it doesn't have a horizontal stabilizer. I can't think of much that flies without a horizontal stab, including birds. I agree, the stabilator is worthless as anything that increases safety, but a stab is a necessity. I rolled my gyro taking off from a dirt road that had a soft muddy spot on the left side. I didn't notice it, even after walking it. A dumb and expensive error, but what does that have to do with flying an unstable, dangerously configured gyro? You're not learning to fly the RAF properly, you're trying to learn to fly it improperly, in an unstable configuration. Hope you add a stab or sell it before you kill yourself. |
#10
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gyro builders
By the way Loxley, my rolling my gyro is as pertinent to the discussion
as your numerous postings in the pedophile newsgroups in your profile. |
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