Buzzing Fatality

After I completed my training, by 300 hour 20 year old instructors, (who
taught me soft field for my flight test, while admitting that they had
NEVER landed on anything other than a surfaced runway) I went to a
Northern BC bush pilot with over 20,000 hours and asked him to give me
some lessons.

And on the other side of the globe, I'm doing my current bush pilot training
with Arthie Hearne, a 76 year old pilot that has spent his life flying in
the Australian outback. I agree, pilots should be taught how to land
properly on all sorts of fields. The number of high time commercial so
called pilots that can't land on his main bush strip which is 1000 metres
long when they drop out to visit and wind up going round and heading to
another strip and driving..... let alone the shorter strips. I'm learning
this so I can then fly out of my back yard with the (almost?) level 330
metre and the downhill take off (that on landing runs uphill into the side
of the mountain!) 250 metre one way cross strip that I'm building. Artie
likes the one way strip! We have walked it together and have had a good
discussion on setting it up right. I can imagine doing the same thing with a
300 hour 20 year old instructor!

He taught me what precautionary landings were. Forget the
curriculum BS of inspecting the field from 500 ft. We got down to 3 feet
(2nd pass after checking aerial obstructions) and held it while all the
time looking left - not ahead - over a rutted abandoned dirt strip! We
did short field landings where my old instructors would have been
calling Mayday.

You should try doing them in Australia! First you have to get upside down!

We did shortfield takeoffs that scared the crap out of
me.

Ain't it grand being in control! And can't you get some get up and go
happening while roaring along at full throttle dodging between the
trees!!!!!! Artie just thinks I'm trying to kill him! At least I haven't
ground-looped it!

We did landings that he called just regular landings, on logging
roads and fields, and in wet soil!

That's going to be interesting, and something I'll have to perfect. My red
mud driveway swallows my car after an inch of rain! Will have to irrigate my
strip and get a good strong layer of couch grass so I can use it on the wet
days where the clouds are high enough not to hide my friendly mountains.

Then I switched. I am now taking my
IFR with a 15000 hour jet first officer. So different - don't let the
passengers know that you are climbing, don't let them know that you are
banking - and definitely don't let them feel the landing. And as a
juxtaposition, I am also having some advanced lessons from an
ex-military aeerobatic formation flyer.

I'm going to do mine with 4 times Australian champion Mal Beard. But for my
current flight plans, the IFR isn't so important. (unless it's marked on the
map with a black line with lots of little cross lines!) I'm looking forward
to the day when I can get my landings that smooth.

So I believe that at my current 325 hours, even though I am still very
green by Henriques.Whitt/Gardner standards I have sufficient expertise
and training to be able to comment on this topic.

Even with my little 60 hours, I reckon I can add to the discussion.

And I maintain, Why would we condone buzzing?
It is stupid
It is irresponsible
It is dangerous
Why the hell would we expect anyone to teach how to do it safely?

One day when I get my low level waiver, I'll be able to enjoy the thrill of
doing it in control! Of course, they'll probably take my little bit of paper
of me when I fly backwards and upside down under Story bridge!

This reminds me of the old discussion on formation flight.
Why do we want to fly close enough to someone who is not trained in
formation flight so that we can wave to him?
We just saw him 20 minutes ago, and we'll see him again in 10 minutes
when we land.

We don't need to bloody wave to him from 20ft wingtip to wingtip!

No need to wave to the planes, I'll be waving to the cars on the bridge!

I am seriously starting to doubt whether it's me that is missing
something, or everyone else!

Either way, I'll just keep doing it my way

Me too!

;)

Peter

In article , gatt wrote:
I've determined that, as a rule, flying low to the ground is inherently
dangerous even if you're straight and level. Are bird strikes common and,
if so, what would a bird with a 6' wingspan do to a Cessna 152 or a Grumman
Tiger?

Bird strikes are fairly uncommon in GA planes because at the altitudes
you find the most birds, GA planes typically have slowed down quite a
bit. A bird can usually avoid anything going less than 90 knots - don't
forget they get lots of flying practise as they may fly most of the day.

I have spent quite a bit of time gaggle soaring my glider with seagulls.
I try to thermal in the same direction as the birds (and the Ka-8 goes
about the same speed) but occasionally a lone bird will join the thermal
the wrong way. I've had a few of these opposite direction birds get
close, but they are always pretty good at dodging.

Interestingly, they've just re-introduced the Great Bustard to its
former habitat in Wiltshire (it was hunted to extinction in the 18th
century). This bird is the heaviest flying bird in the world - weighing
up to 50lbs with a 7ft wingspan. I'd love to soar my glider with one,
but I'd hate to hit one!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article , gatt wrote:
Do people use Rain-X on windscreens? That's one of the single best things
I've learned in years of four-wheeling: My jeep will be covered with mud,
except for the windshield. It's amazing.

I don't think it's good for plastic windscreens like on aircraft - but I
do use it on the windows of my house!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article nospam-8F2145.22212702082004@shawnews, tony roberts wrote:
This reminds me of the old discussion on formation flight.
Why do we want to fly close enough to someone who is not trained in
formation flight so that we can wave to him?
We just saw him 20 minutes ago, and we'll see him again in 10 minutes
when we land.

We don't need to bloody wave to him from 20ft wingtip to wingtip!

I am seriously starting to doubt whether it's me that is missing
something, or everyone else!

Yes - you are missing something, quite a lot in fact if you think we fly
formation just to wave at our friends. There are many reasons to fly
formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight
photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when
done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other
pilot is hand signals.

One of my most rewarding cross country flights was Houston to Oshkosh
and back again - almost 25 hours of formation flying with a C170 and a
C140.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message ...

Bird strikes are fairly uncommon in GA planes because at the altitudes
you find the most birds, GA planes typically have slowed down quite a
bit. A bird can usually avoid anything going less than 90 knots - don't
forget they get lots of flying practise as they may fly most of the day.

Tell that to the Turkey Buzzard I hit at 80 knots at 2000 AGL in the Skyhawk.

In article . net, Dudley
Henriques wrote:
The accidents usually occur when steep turns and/or steep climbing turn
exits to the pass are attempted with pilot distraction outside the
airplane to objects or persons on the ground. The stall speed increases
as g is applied and too hard a pull accelerates the stall. In many cases
expert pilot witnesses to these accidents testify to a noticeable slip
or skid just before the stall which would indicate an off center ball
due to pilot distraction outside the airplane.

Another factor may be the good old inner ear lying again - with the head
turned rapidly to watch the subject of a buzzjob followed by the pullup
whilst still concentrating on the ground may lead to the situation where
the pilot doesn't realise the lack of coordination and pitch attitude.

The flight medical guy who did a talk at our club described it -
unfortunately it's too long ago to remember exactly how he described it!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:20:16 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

In article , gatt wrote:
I've determined that, as a rule, flying low to the ground is inherently
dangerous even if you're straight and level. Are bird strikes common and,
if so, what would a bird with a 6' wingspan do to a Cessna 152 or a Grumman
Tiger?

Bird strikes are fairly uncommon in GA planes because at the altitudes

Man, I've hit three and all were in the pattern. None did any damage
except to the birds although one completely plugged the air flow
between the cylinders on the pilots side.

you find the most birds, GA planes typically have slowed down quite a
bit. A bird can usually avoid anything going less than 90 knots - don't
forget they get lots of flying practise as they may fly most of the day.

We had a Cherokee 180 landing when a starling went through the prop,
around the side and *through* the window (not the windshield) on the
pilot's side. Took out most of the window.


I have spent quite a bit of time gaggle soaring my glider with seagulls.
I try to thermal in the same direction as the birds (and the Ka-8 goes
about the same speed) but occasionally a lone bird will join the thermal
the wrong way. I've had a few of these opposite direction birds get
close, but they are always pretty good at dodging.

They may be predictable in thermals, but near the ground Seagulls are
a brainless as ducks. I'd say a many as half a dozen get hit every
year here at our little airport. At least their buddies clean up the
runway in short order.


Interestingly, they've just re-introduced the Great Bustard to its
former habitat in Wiltshire (it was hunted to extinction in the 18th
century). This bird is the heaviest flying bird in the world - weighing
up to 50lbs with a 7ft wingspan. I'd love to soar my glider with one,
but I'd hate to hit one!

Every once in a while we read of collisions with turkey buzzards here
in the states. (I don't know the difference between a Turkey buzzard
and Great Bustard) I don't know about Ron's experience, but most are
described as decidedly unpleasant. It's bad enough hit and kill one,
but you better hope that sucker is *dead* as they have a very
obnoxious and unpleasant way of "fighting back", or getting even.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

In article , Ron Natalie wrote:
bit. A bird can usually avoid anything going less than 90 knots - don't
forget they get lots of flying practise as they may fly most of the day.

Tell that to the Turkey Buzzard I hit at 80 knots at 2000 AGL in the Skyhawk.

That's why I said 'usually'. If they didn't, we'd be continously
scraping bird guts off our planes instead of bug guts.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article ,
Dylan Smith wrote:

In article nospam-8F2145.22212702082004@shawnews, tony roberts wrote:
This reminds me of the old discussion on formation flight.
Why do we want to fly close enough to someone who is not trained in
formation flight so that we can wave to him?
We just saw him 20 minutes ago, and we'll see him again in 10 minutes
when we land.

We don't need to bloody wave to him from 20ft wingtip to wingtip!

I am seriously starting to doubt whether it's me that is missing
something, or everyone else!

Yes - you are missing something, quite a lot in fact if you think we fly
formation just to wave at our friends. There are many reasons to fly
formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight
photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when
done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other
pilot is hand signals.

One of my most rewarding cross country flights was Houston to Oshkosh
and back again - almost 25 hours of formation flying with a C170 and a
C140.


AMEN to that! Formation flying is a precision maneuver -- not to be
taken casually. It requires that everybody knows the signals and
protocols associated with formation flying. The T34 Assn. has a good
formation flying manual, as do the Swift Assn. and the Yak Assn.

Every flight should both brief and debrief, so everybody knows what went
right as well as what needs improvement.

BTW, Dylan, do you know Ian McFayden, at the Isle of Man?

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Dylan Smith wrote:

In article nospam-8F2145.22212702082004@shawnews, tony roberts wrote:
This reminds me of the old discussion on formation flight.
Why do we want to fly close enough to someone who is not trained in
formation flight so that we can wave to him?
We just saw him 20 minutes ago, and we'll see him again in 10 minutes
when we land.

We don't need to bloody wave to him from 20ft wingtip to wingtip!

I am seriously starting to doubt whether it's me that is missing
something, or everyone else!

Yes - you are missing something, quite a lot in fact if you think we fly
formation just to wave at our friends. There are many reasons to fly
formation in civil aircraft - the most common is to get in-flight
photographs of another aircraft, but quite often it's done because when
done well, it is very rewarding. The only 'waving' we do at the other
pilot is hand signals.

One of my most rewarding cross country flights was Houston to Oshkosh
and back again - almost 25 hours of formation flying with a C170 and a
C140.


AMEN to that! Formation flying is a precision maneuver -- not to be
taken casually. It requires that everybody knows the signals and
protocols associated with formation flying. The T34 Assn. has a good
formation flying manual, as do the Swift Assn. and the Yak Assn.

Every flight should both brief and debrief, so everybody knows what went
right as well as what needs improvement.

BTW, Dylan, do you know Ian McFayden, at the Isle of Man?

A couple of advantages formation flying provides is extra sets of eyes to
help see and avoid and a larger object for others to see.