Flying Friday through the TFRs

I had several flights scheduled for Friday. The first one in the morning did
not go; my CFI student and I spent the whole lesson discussing how to teach
students how to preflight an airplane.

The second was our scheduled air taxi service to Roche Harbor. We left at
1:00 pm so the TFR did not affect our departure, but the return was at 3:00
pm. Tacoma Narrows is just inside the 30 mile ring so I needed a flight plan
and squawk. No problem; although I the briefer told me I would probably have
to deviate to the west in order to spend as little as possible in the TFR,
ATC just had me fly direct from Roche back to Tacoma, flying over both the
Bangor and PSNS TFRs and taking the long way through the Presidential TFR.

The next flight was supposed to be a sightseeing flight at Mt. Rainier, but
that was delayed. Another pilot had to take that while I flew a student
pilot on a stage check to Hoquiam and back. When we called Tacoma Ground for
our squawk they had no record of our flight plan, so I called FSS on the
cell phone. The briefer told me that he had left it with my student to ask
some questions about the IFR/VFR routing; my student thought he had filed.
It took half an hour to straighten that one out. We managed to depart TIW at
7:30, an hour and a half late.

After that there were no problems and we were back at TIW by 9:00 pm. After
the touch and go at HQM we just called up Seattle Center and they gave us
the squawk for our return trip. Still, it was obvious the radio traffic was
much too complicated for a student pilot and I had to help him way more than
I should have had to.

The other pilot had no problems with the sightseeing flight and none of the
other instructors reported problems the entire day. Although I monitored
121.5 the whole day, I never once heard a single transmission on it. That
sharply contrasts with the experience of other Presidential visits when
121.5 was very busy with warnings to aircraft violating the TFRs.

There was one guy, though: he kept insisting he wanted to land at Renton,
which was inside the 10 mile prohibited area. Seattle Approach told him
several times that his closest choices were Olympia, Tacoma Narrows, and
Bremerton. They argued about it for a good fifteen minutes before the guy
finally settled on Paine. I understand the guy's frustration but it seems
inappropriate to take it out on ATC.

Unfortunately, the guys at Kenmore and Boeing Field were not so lucky. They
were shut down at 2:30 pm yesterday and won't get to open until 8:35 am
today. King 5 (the local NBC affiliate) ran a news story about how the TFR
was costing Kenmore $75,000 in revenue. So I guess when NBC isn't trashing
GA for lax security, they sometimes can be persuaded to actually show some
of the effects of too much security. It isn't just aviation, either. Towne
Center (a large, upscale shopping mall) was closed because it is too close
to where Bush was staying, no doubt costing the merchants there a large
fortune. People who drove anywhere near the great man were closely tailed by
the cops.

I am not so sure Kerry deserves credit for not having TFRs around him. He
seems to stay pretty tight within the Presidential TFRs, content with
letting Bush take the heat for his own security.

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.

Kerry came through the SW one to two days ahead of Bush, there were no
"Presidential" TFRs for Kerry to hide in, while he was here. Out in the open
(so to speak) and stayed on the LAS Strip... no TFR. Bush shows up and a
number of airports are blocked.. no ATC service from the ground.

Interesting, our TFR said "no flight training", maybe because you left on a
X-C of sorts is how you got out?

BT

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I had several flights scheduled for Friday. The first one in the morning
did
not go; my CFI student and I spent the whole lesson discussing how to
teach
students how to preflight an airplane.

The second was our scheduled air taxi service to Roche Harbor. We left at
1:00 pm so the TFR did not affect our departure, but the return was at
3:00
pm. Tacoma Narrows is just inside the 30 mile ring so I needed a flight
plan
and squawk. No problem; although I the briefer told me I would probably
have
to deviate to the west in order to spend as little as possible in the TFR,
ATC just had me fly direct from Roche back to Tacoma, flying over both the
Bangor and PSNS TFRs and taking the long way through the Presidential TFR.

The next flight was supposed to be a sightseeing flight at Mt. Rainier,
but
that was delayed. Another pilot had to take that while I flew a student
pilot on a stage check to Hoquiam and back. When we called Tacoma Ground
for
our squawk they had no record of our flight plan, so I called FSS on the
cell phone. The briefer told me that he had left it with my student to ask
some questions about the IFR/VFR routing; my student thought he had filed.
It took half an hour to straighten that one out. We managed to depart TIW
at
7:30, an hour and a half late.

After that there were no problems and we were back at TIW by 9:00 pm.
After
the touch and go at HQM we just called up Seattle Center and they gave us
the squawk for our return trip. Still, it was obvious the radio traffic
was
much too complicated for a student pilot and I had to help him way more
than
I should have had to.

The other pilot had no problems with the sightseeing flight and none of
the
other instructors reported problems the entire day. Although I monitored
121.5 the whole day, I never once heard a single transmission on it. That
sharply contrasts with the experience of other Presidential visits when
121.5 was very busy with warnings to aircraft violating the TFRs.

There was one guy, though: he kept insisting he wanted to land at Renton,
which was inside the 10 mile prohibited area. Seattle Approach told him
several times that his closest choices were Olympia, Tacoma Narrows, and
Bremerton. They argued about it for a good fifteen minutes before the guy
finally settled on Paine. I understand the guy's frustration but it seems
inappropriate to take it out on ATC.

Unfortunately, the guys at Kenmore and Boeing Field were not so lucky.
They
were shut down at 2:30 pm yesterday and won't get to open until 8:35 am
today. King 5 (the local NBC affiliate) ran a news story about how the TFR
was costing Kenmore $75,000 in revenue. So I guess when NBC isn't trashing
GA for lax security, they sometimes can be persuaded to actually show some
of the effects of too much security. It isn't just aviation, either. Towne
Center (a large, upscale shopping mall) was closed because it is too close
to where Bush was staying, no doubt costing the merchants there a large
fortune. People who drove anywhere near the great man were closely tailed
by
the cops.

I am not so sure Kerry deserves credit for not having TFRs around him. He
seems to stay pretty tight within the Presidential TFRs, content with
letting Bush take the heat for his own security.

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.

Just dreaming....do you think that a President Kerry could prevail upon the
Secret Service to lighten up when it comes to GA airplanes, or is the SS
beyond the power of the president to change?

It is interesting to watch TV coverage of other national leaders, especially
Canada, and note the absence of guys with wires in their ears talking into
their sleeves. The Canadian politicos even interact with comedians who
accost them on the street or in government buildings. But nobody hates
Canada..........

Bob Gardner

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I had several flights scheduled for Friday. The first one in the morning
did
not go; my CFI student and I spent the whole lesson discussing how to
teach
students how to preflight an airplane.

The second was our scheduled air taxi service to Roche Harbor. We left at
1:00 pm so the TFR did not affect our departure, but the return was at
3:00
pm. Tacoma Narrows is just inside the 30 mile ring so I needed a flight
plan
and squawk. No problem; although I the briefer told me I would probably
have
to deviate to the west in order to spend as little as possible in the TFR,
ATC just had me fly direct from Roche back to Tacoma, flying over both the
Bangor and PSNS TFRs and taking the long way through the Presidential TFR.

The next flight was supposed to be a sightseeing flight at Mt. Rainier,
but
that was delayed. Another pilot had to take that while I flew a student
pilot on a stage check to Hoquiam and back. When we called Tacoma Ground
for
our squawk they had no record of our flight plan, so I called FSS on the
cell phone. The briefer told me that he had left it with my student to ask
some questions about the IFR/VFR routing; my student thought he had filed.
It took half an hour to straighten that one out. We managed to depart TIW
at
7:30, an hour and a half late.

After that there were no problems and we were back at TIW by 9:00 pm.
After
the touch and go at HQM we just called up Seattle Center and they gave us
the squawk for our return trip. Still, it was obvious the radio traffic
was
much too complicated for a student pilot and I had to help him way more
than
I should have had to.

The other pilot had no problems with the sightseeing flight and none of
the
other instructors reported problems the entire day. Although I monitored
121.5 the whole day, I never once heard a single transmission on it. That
sharply contrasts with the experience of other Presidential visits when
121.5 was very busy with warnings to aircraft violating the TFRs.

There was one guy, though: he kept insisting he wanted to land at Renton,
which was inside the 10 mile prohibited area. Seattle Approach told him
several times that his closest choices were Olympia, Tacoma Narrows, and
Bremerton. They argued about it for a good fifteen minutes before the guy
finally settled on Paine. I understand the guy's frustration but it seems
inappropriate to take it out on ATC.

Unfortunately, the guys at Kenmore and Boeing Field were not so lucky.
They
were shut down at 2:30 pm yesterday and won't get to open until 8:35 am
today. King 5 (the local NBC affiliate) ran a news story about how the TFR
was costing Kenmore $75,000 in revenue. So I guess when NBC isn't trashing
GA for lax security, they sometimes can be persuaded to actually show some
of the effects of too much security. It isn't just aviation, either. Towne
Center (a large, upscale shopping mall) was closed because it is too close
to where Bush was staying, no doubt costing the merchants there a large
fortune. People who drove anywhere near the great man were closely tailed
by
the cops.

I am not so sure Kerry deserves credit for not having TFRs around him. He
seems to stay pretty tight within the Presidential TFRs, content with
letting Bush take the heat for his own security.

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.

In article ,
Bob Gardner wrote:
Just dreaming....do you think that a President Kerry could prevail upon the
Secret Service to lighten up when it comes to GA airplanes, or is the SS
beyond the power of the president to change?

It is interesting to watch TV coverage of other national leaders, especially
Canada, and note the absence of guys with wires in their ears talking into
their sleeves. The Canadian politicos even interact with comedians who
accost them on the street or in government buildings. But nobody hates
Canada..........

We do have restricted airspace around our Parliament buildings, just like
a big superpower. Ours is a bit small, only 0.5NM diameter and it goes up
to 1500 ASL. I can't see anything on the chart for the Prime Minister's
residence, however. :-)

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:31:34 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:

Towne
Center (a large, upscale shopping mall) was closed because it is too close
to where Bush was staying, no doubt costing the merchants there a large
fortune.

But now you're kidding, right? You mean: you are shutting down a whole
shopping mall only because of your *OWN* *elected* president (no matter who
it is) is in the vicinity? And you all let him/them go away with this?
cool.

#m

--
The more one is absorbed in fighting Evil,
the less one is tempted to place the Good
in question. (J.P. Sartre)

No, that's absolutly not a dream, all you need is a President with the balls
to do it, hell if we had a Prez with testicals and a certificate, you could
park right next to "America 1" on any ramp, it would be a GA airplane flown
by the prez with an N registration.
OT: did Jimmy Carter fly in a GA aircraft as Prez?

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Just dreaming....do you think that a President Kerry could prevail upon
the
Secret Service to lighten up when it comes to GA airplanes, or is the SS
beyond the power of the president to change?

It is interesting to watch TV coverage of other national leaders,
especially
Canada, and note the absence of guys with wires in their ears talking into
their sleeves. The Canadian politicos even interact with comedians who
accost them on the street or in government buildings. But nobody hates
Canada..........

Bob Gardner

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I had several flights scheduled for Friday. The first one in the morning
did
not go; my CFI student and I spent the whole lesson discussing how to
teach
students how to preflight an airplane.

The second was our scheduled air taxi service to Roche Harbor. We left
at
1:00 pm so the TFR did not affect our departure, but the return was at
3:00
pm. Tacoma Narrows is just inside the 30 mile ring so I needed a flight
plan
and squawk. No problem; although I the briefer told me I would probably
have
to deviate to the west in order to spend as little as possible in the
TFR,
ATC just had me fly direct from Roche back to Tacoma, flying over both
the
Bangor and PSNS TFRs and taking the long way through the Presidential
TFR.

The next flight was supposed to be a sightseeing flight at Mt. Rainier,
but
that was delayed. Another pilot had to take that while I flew a student
pilot on a stage check to Hoquiam and back. When we called Tacoma Ground
for
our squawk they had no record of our flight plan, so I called FSS on the
cell phone. The briefer told me that he had left it with my student to
ask
some questions about the IFR/VFR routing; my student thought he had
filed.
It took half an hour to straighten that one out. We managed to depart
TIW
at
7:30, an hour and a half late.

After that there were no problems and we were back at TIW by 9:00 pm.
After
the touch and go at HQM we just called up Seattle Center and they gave
us
the squawk for our return trip. Still, it was obvious the radio traffic
was
much too complicated for a student pilot and I had to help him way more
than
I should have had to.

The other pilot had no problems with the sightseeing flight and none of
the
other instructors reported problems the entire day. Although I monitored
121.5 the whole day, I never once heard a single transmission on it.
That
sharply contrasts with the experience of other Presidential visits when
121.5 was very busy with warnings to aircraft violating the TFRs.

There was one guy, though: he kept insisting he wanted to land at
Renton,
which was inside the 10 mile prohibited area. Seattle Approach told him
several times that his closest choices were Olympia, Tacoma Narrows, and
Bremerton. They argued about it for a good fifteen minutes before the
guy
finally settled on Paine. I understand the guy's frustration but it
seems
inappropriate to take it out on ATC.

Unfortunately, the guys at Kenmore and Boeing Field were not so lucky.
They
were shut down at 2:30 pm yesterday and won't get to open until 8:35 am
today. King 5 (the local NBC affiliate) ran a news story about how the
TFR
was costing Kenmore $75,000 in revenue. So I guess when NBC isn't
trashing
GA for lax security, they sometimes can be persuaded to actually show
some
of the effects of too much security. It isn't just aviation, either.
Towne
Center (a large, upscale shopping mall) was closed because it is too
close
to where Bush was staying, no doubt costing the merchants there a large
fortune. People who drove anywhere near the great man were closely
tailed
by
the cops.

I am not so sure Kerry deserves credit for not having TFRs around him.
He
seems to stay pretty tight within the Presidential TFRs, content with
letting Bush take the heat for his own security.

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the
animals.

In article ,
C J Campbell wrote:

I am not so sure Kerry deserves credit for not having TFRs around him. He
seems to stay pretty tight within the Presidential TFRs, content with
letting Bush take the heat for his own security.

After Bush brought his TFRs to you, Kerry was riding his bike around
Waterfront Park in downtown Portland. Today I think he's suppoesd to
be windsurfing on the Columbia.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

If you're in Canada and watch Royal Canadian Air Farce, you have seen Marg
Delahunty talking to Chretien with a (fake) sword in her hand....imagine
that happening with a US president. Maybe she did the same thing with Paul
Martin before he became Prime Minister. She'll get more chances when the
fall TV seasons begins.

Bob Gardner

"Guy Middleton" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Gardner wrote:
Just dreaming....do you think that a President Kerry could prevail upon
the
Secret Service to lighten up when it comes to GA airplanes, or is the SS
beyond the power of the president to change?

It is interesting to watch TV coverage of other national leaders,
especially
Canada, and note the absence of guys with wires in their ears talking
into
their sleeves. The Canadian politicos even interact with comedians who
accost them on the street or in government buildings. But nobody hates
Canada..........

We do have restricted airspace around our Parliament buildings, just like
a big superpower. Ours is a bit small, only 0.5NM diameter and it goes up
to 1500 ASL. I can't see anything on the chart for the Prime Minister's
residence, however. :-)

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:31:34 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:

Towne
Center (a large, upscale shopping mall) was closed because it is too
close
to where Bush was staying, no doubt costing the merchants there a large
fortune.

But now you're kidding, right?

Nope.

You mean: you are shutting down a whole
shopping mall only because of your *OWN* *elected* president (no matter
who
it is) is in the vicinity? And you all let him/them go away with this?
cool.

Yep, and yep. Next, he says he is going to send us all to the vet to be
tutored. (or something like that)

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Just dreaming....do you think that a President Kerry could prevail upon
the
Secret Service to lighten up when it comes to GA airplanes, or is the SS
beyond the power of the president to change?

It is interesting to watch TV coverage of other national leaders,
especially
Canada, and note the absence of guys with wires in their ears talking into
their sleeves. The Canadian politicos even interact with comedians who
accost them on the street or in government buildings. But nobody hates
Canada..........

You would think we were some banana republic where the government would
collapse if El Jefe dies. Honestly, I think all this security sends the
wrong message -- that we are so weak that we cannot afford to lose a
President. It makes the President an even more tempting target for those who
hate us.

Does anyone seriously think that the loss of Bush or Kerry or anyone else
would disrupt the governing of America for even one second? Yet this is the
message that is drummed in every second of every day to some very malevolent
characters. I don't think that it is overstating things to say that the
current level of security is causing more problems than it solves.

I am all for reasonable security measures. I don't like seeing national
leaders assassinated more than anyone else does. But I do think that when
the security is so tight that it damages businesses and disrupts the lives
of ordinary Americans, that someone has their priorities upside down.
Besides, there are millions of Americans whose lives are negatively affected
by this security. Can anyone honestly say that none of these people are so
close to the edge that they won't snap and become assassins themselves?