ME Insurance

Can a multi-engine student get insurance for his own ME airplane,
based on his instructor's ME time? One insurance company is saying
"no way"; they'll only insure him AFTER he get's his ME rating. I'm
wondering if this is universally true.

Scott,
I got coverage on a 310 with no rating but was back in 2001. But it cost
$6500 to insure it for $120k. I had the Commercial ME rating and close to
200 the next year and it dropped to $3500. It was abt the same last year
with new engines ($170k Hull) and 600 hrs. Keep looking and good luck.

Mark Manes
N28409



"Scott Draper" wrote in message
...
Can a multi-engine student get insurance for his own ME airplane,
based on his instructor's ME time? One insurance company is saying
"no way"; they'll only insure him AFTER he get's his ME rating. I'm
wondering if this is universally true.

Thanks, Mark. Who was your insurance with?

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:31:30 -0600, "Mark Manes"
wrote:

Scott,
I got coverage on a 310 with no rating but was back in 2001. But it cost
$6500 to insure it for $120k. I had the Commercial ME rating and close to
200 the next year and it dropped to $3500. It was abt the same last year
with new engines ($170k Hull) and 600 hrs. Keep looking and good luck.

Mark Manes
N28409



"Scott Draper" wrote in message
.. .
Can a multi-engine student get insurance for his own ME airplane,
based on his instructor's ME time? One insurance company is saying
"no way"; they'll only insure him AFTER he get's his ME rating. I'm
wondering if this is universally true.

are you "no ME rating" or no rating at all..
yes some people do go straight to Private Multi as their first aircraft..

Instrument and Commercial ratings with at least 500 or 1000hrs total time
will reduce the premium.

What type aircraft? how many seats? anything over 4 seats increases the
pilot limitations and/or insurance premiums significantly.

Type aircraft based on "accident rate" also makes a factor. Piper Seminole
vs Beech Baron, etc.

good luck
BT

"Scott Draper" wrote in message
...
Can a multi-engine student get insurance for his own ME airplane,
based on his instructor's ME time? One insurance company is saying
"no way"; they'll only insure him AFTER he get's his ME rating. I'm
wondering if this is universally true.

Parts availability makes a difference as well. My insurance broker was
telling me there is some very inexpensive Piper twin out there that is
very old and not many parts. Any accident ends up being a total so the
rates are very high.

-Robert

That would probably be the Aztec A or B models. Limited numbers, expensive
prop AD's, and many dis-similar parts to the much more numerous later
models. Unless the props have been replaced with non-AD hubs/props and some
interior, paint, and avionics upgrades have been performed, they are
basically worth the value of the engines. By the time you spend that much
on a twin that old, you'll be lucky if you can find an insurance agency
willing to insure the hull for what you've put into it. I know of a local B
model that was offered for sale @ $60k over a year ago... last ad I saw had
it listed for less than $30k. A sharp scrapyard can get a lot more out of it
in parts.

Our lowest time partner is a PPL-IA-SEL-MEL. He had about 200 hours when he
did his MEL. First years insurance on our Aztec with $88k hull cost us
$4600 IIRC. Getting the rating only takes a weekend. If I had any
insurance questions, it wouldn't be about cost or if I could get insurance
before I received the rating, it would be "What twins can I get insurance in
as a pilot with these ratings and with these times?" I'm sure we wouldn't
have gotten any company to take us if we had first bought a C421 or an
Aerostar with only 10-15 hours MEL time. (if they did, they would have
forced us to live with a MEI with lots of hours in make/model before ever
turning us loose)

Jim

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
Parts availability makes a difference as well. My insurance broker was
telling me there is some very inexpensive Piper twin out there that is
very old and not many parts. Any accident ends up being a total so the
rates are very high.

-Robert

are you "no ME rating" or no rating at all..

Actually, I'm the instructor. My student's father bought him a 182 to
do his instrument rating in, whereupon he sold the airplane for a
profit and the instrument rating was free.

Since his father was willing to buy a twin, I suggested doing his ME
Commercial before his SE. However, his insurance agency said they
won't insure him until he has his ME, so we're considering doing a
private ME add-on, VFR only, in our flight school's Seneca, and then
go for his Commercial ME in his own airplane.

However, it makes far more sense to do everything in his own airplane,
if he can get insured.

Based on what you described.. he should be able to do his Pvt ME add-on in
his own plane (all dual received).. get the insurance and press for the
Commercial ME then Commercial SE.

Or did you mean that the insurance company would not insure him until he had
Comm and ME.
Granted, the kicker for the Commercial is the required Long Solo cross
country.. everything else can be dual received, unless he is short on total
time requirements.

Our local flight school has Seneca II, but you need Comm ME and Instrument
to rent them solo, but with a qualified MEI, no problems.. it's all dual
until the check ride.
Then you are limited to one pax until x number of hours in type and total ME
hours, before you can
"fill the seats".

BT

"Scott Draper" wrote in message
...
are you "no ME rating" or no rating at all..

Actually, I'm the instructor. My student's father bought him a 182 to
do his instrument rating in, whereupon he sold the airplane for a
profit and the instrument rating was free.

Since his father was willing to buy a twin, I suggested doing his ME
Commercial before his SE. However, his insurance agency said they
won't insure him until he has his ME, so we're considering doing a
private ME add-on, VFR only, in our flight school's Seneca, and then
go for his Commercial ME in his own airplane.

However, it makes far more sense to do everything in his own airplane,
if he can get insured.

Based on what you described.. he should be able to do his Pvt ME
add-on in his own plane (all dual received).. get the insurance and
press for the Commercial ME then Commercial SE.

The insurance company will not insure him while we are pursuing the
Private add-on, even if it's all dual (so he tells me). Granted, some
people take the risk, but I can't recommend that route.

Granted, the kicker for the Commercial is the required Long Solo
cross country.. everything else can be dual received, unless he is
short on total time requirements.

Yep, that's wasted time, IMO, the "performing the duties of
pilot-in-command". That's why I normally discourage the ME as the
first rating, but when you own your own airplane, the ME hours come a
lot cheaper.


Thank you.

Scott Draper writes:

Can a multi-engine student get insurance for his own ME airplane,
based on his instructor's ME time? One insurance company is saying
"no way"; they'll only insure him AFTER he get's his ME rating. I'm
wondering if this is universally true.

I bought our Aztec before I even had my Private. My partner had his
MEL though. We were both on the policy as soon as I got my ASEL.

I was just required to spend 25(?) hours dual and then 15 hours solo
in the plane before I was insured for carrying passengers.

Call Andy Facer at Facer Insurance. (It's storming here and I'm
offline so I can't look up the info.)

--kyler