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Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 29th 16, 06:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

Having used XC skies and now Topmeteo, I wonder what's the need to get the forecasted SKEW -T diagram to points along your task.
Will you as, a pilot, get any better prediction of soaring conditions if you use both ?
Dan
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  #2  
Old February 29th 16, 06:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 11:22:12 AM UTC-6, wrote:
Having used XC skies and now Topmeteo, I wonder what's the need to get the forecasted SKEW -T diagram to points along your task.
Will you as, a pilot, get any better prediction of soaring conditions if you use both ?
Dan


i still like to use the forecast skew-t to help estimate the trigger time and temperature. also helps get a good idea of how the cu will develop during the day. whether they will spread out and create overcast or thin out as the boundary layer lifts into dryer air aloft, or blow up into thunderstorms.
  #3  
Old February 29th 16, 07:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Phil Chidekel
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 12:22:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Having used XC skies and now Topmeteo, I wonder what's the need to get the forecasted SKEW -T diagram to points along your task.
Will you as, a pilot, get any better prediction of soaring conditions if you use both ?
Dan


Within the bounds of science, people can interpret a SKEW-T differently. I like that. I think it's easier to "fact check" a SKEW-T against actual observations, and discern whether a certain sounding is actually a reasonable interpretation of a slice of atmosphere for a specific day/situation.

Blipmaps and topmeteo are a computer's interpretation of a SKEW-T. I like to interpret it myself and compare it with the computer.
  #4  
Old February 29th 16, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

It's fun to task "using the pretty colors" but perhaps easier to visualise wind shear at an inversion using SKEW-T, and if it'll be worth groveling in the inversion to get on top of it.
Jim
  #5  
Old February 29th 16, 08:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 9:22:12 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Having used XC skies and now Topmeteo, I wonder what's the need to get the forecasted SKEW -T diagram to points along your task.
Will you as, a pilot, get any better prediction of soaring conditions if you use both ?
Dan


Pretty maps tell you what is supposed to happen. Skew T tells you why -- and helps you to figure out why it's not happening.

For example a "top of lift" occasioned by a very shallow intersection of adiabatic parcel with the surrounding air is a very different forecast than one with a hard inversion.

Skew T shows the vertical profile of wind and direction.

Skew T shows you how close you are to things not in the graphical forecast. How close to OD/not OD? How close to cirrus formation?

John Cochrane
  #6  
Old February 29th 16, 10:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

On 2/29/2016 12:37 PM, John Cochrane wrote:
On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 9:22:12 AM UTC-8,
wrote:
Having used XC skies and now Topmeteo, I wonder what's the need to get
the forecasted SKEW -T diagram to points along your task. Will you as, a
pilot, get any better prediction of soaring conditions if you use both ?
Dan


Pretty maps tell you what is supposed to happen. Skew T tells you why --
and helps you to figure out why it's not happening.

For example a "top of lift" occasioned by a very shallow intersection of
adiabatic parcel with the surrounding air is a very different forecast than
one with a hard inversion.

Skew T shows the vertical profile of wind and direction.

Skew T shows you how close you are to things not in the graphical forecast.
How close to OD/not OD? How close to cirrus formation?

John Cochrane


Succinctly stated.

I saw my first lapse rate diagram as a sketch on a napkin by my officemate
before I'd ever been to a glider field; its predictive power was immediately
apparent to me. (I still have it! And, I eventually learned the NWS had
something called a Skewed-T plot.) Perhaps that's why I still prefer to
generate my own daily forecasts from as primary data as is obtainable on any
given day (sometimes, eyeballs-only!).

Bob - a "Why?" kinda guy - W.
  #7  
Old March 1st 16, 12:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Springford
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

and Skew-T is free, an important consideration for glider pilots

If you know how to interpret the Skew-T (or T-Phi) diagram then you can get all the information that the graphical forecasts provide and more. It just takes more effort and knowledge. (Which seems to be going the way predicted in Idiocracy.)

  #8  
Old March 1st 16, 02:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

Well... the SKEW-T logP is one of the most information rich diagrams one can find. If you know how to really "read" one, you can figure out lift strength, height, cloudbase, and winds from a single view at a glance. It takes me about 5 seconds to look at one to decide if it's a good day or not. That said, the modern interfaces in XCSkies, DrJack, etc. allow you to get a broader view of weather at a macro level including fantastic trend information. "North looks like it should have higher bases and more Cu than South" or "it's obvious that the models think the encroaching front shuts things down by late afternoon." HRRR is becoming incredibly useful for my forecasting as well.

So, the answer for me is "Yes, it's still very important." But since they are a point forecast, they aren't the only thing I look at.

  #9  
Old March 1st 16, 02:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

Papa3, what is HRRR ???
On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 8:33:35 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
Well... the SKEW-T logP is one of the most information rich diagrams one can find. If you know how to really "read" one, you can figure out lift strength, height, cloudbase, and winds from a single view at a glance. It takes me about 5 seconds to look at one to decide if it's a good day or not. That said, the modern interfaces in XCSkies, DrJack, etc. allow you to get a broader view of weather at a macro level including fantastic trend information. "North looks like it should have higher bases and more Cu than South" or "it's obvious that the models think the encroaching front shuts things down by late afternoon." HRRR is becoming incredibly useful for my forecasting as well.

So, the answer for me is "Yes, it's still very important." But since they are a point forecast, they aren't the only thing I look at.


  #10  
Old March 1st 16, 03:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Is SKEW-T still important to soaring pilots ?

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 7:36:02 AM UTC-6, wrote:
Papa3, what is HRRR ???
On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 8:33:35 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
Well... the SKEW-T logP is one of the most information rich diagrams one can find. If you know how to really "read" one, you can figure out lift strength, height, cloudbase, and winds from a single view at a glance. It takes me about 5 seconds to look at one to decide if it's a good day or not.. That said, the modern interfaces in XCSkies, DrJack, etc. allow you to get a broader view of weather at a macro level including fantastic trend information. "North looks like it should have higher bases and more Cu than South" or "it's obvious that the models think the encroaching front shuts things down by late afternoon." HRRR is becoming incredibly useful for my forecasting as well.

So, the answer for me is "Yes, it's still very important." But since they are a point forecast, they aren't the only thing I look at.


High Resolution Rapid Refresh
http://rapidrefresh.noaa.gov/HRRRncep/
Get ready to be overloaded with data.
 




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