Good/bad experiences with Tow Vehicle Syndicates?

In article ,
son_of_flubber wrote:

I own a very fuel efficient car (40+ mpg) that handles the long drive to the
airport at minimal cost. But my fuel efficient car is not suitable for
towing a glider trailer... especially if I have to tow the trailer out of a
muddy field.

So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something
like a Subaru Forester?

Do people ever form Tow Vehicle Syndicates? How does that work out?

No experience with a tow car syndicate. However, I can give a
recommendation for a multipurpose tow vehicle. I have been very happy
towing with a Toyota Sienna minivan. MIne is a 2000 model, V6, automatic
trans (of course). Very pleasant vehicle for daily use. Long enough and
heavy enough, with enough power and brakes, to be safe when towing a
glider trailer. Gets 22-24 mpg at 70 mph when not towing. Mileage drops
to 16-18 when towing my 1700lb trailer at 65 mph. It has 180k miles on
it now and has never been in the shop for repairs. I have not yet had to
replace even the front disc brake pads! I would expect later model
Siennas to be even better. Lots of them around and very reasonable to
buy used (in the US).

My other tow vehicle is 1987 Toyota Pickup based motorhome. It is
spectacularly underpowered, but somehow always gets the job done.

Originally Posted by K

On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:22:31 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:[color=blue][i]

So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something like a Subaru Forester?

Speaking of wheel base...a Chevy Subdivision or GMC Yukon XL (I've got one of these and can attest they tow about anything comfortably) is close to unbeatable. They also come with sufficient stopping power and outweigh the glider/trailer combo by a comfortable margin. I believe there are plenty of these in the used market.

The real downside to these vehicles are 1.) the gas mileage and 2.) repair costs. If you only land out once in a while then it may be OK. If you find a decent copy that has been maintained then you should be OK there as well. However, with these vehicles, as with most things mechanical and have rubber on the road, there is no guarantee as they get older (meaning lots of miles or conditions of use).

Probably comes down to personal preference and compromise on a few things when it comes to decision time. Lots of variables to consider!

Brad A.

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:32:31 PM UTC-5, Brad Alston wrote:[color=blue][i]
K;825382 Wrote: On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:22:31 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote: So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something like a Subaru Forester? Speaking of wheel base...a Chevy Subdivision or GMC Yukon XL (I've got one of these and can attest they tow about anything comfortably) is close to unbeatable. They also come with sufficient stopping power and outweigh the glider/trailer combo by a comfortable margin. I believe there are plenty of these in the used market. The real downside to these vehicles are 1.) the gas mileage and 2.) repair costs. If you only land out once in a while then it may be OK. If you find a decent copy that has been maintained then you should be OK there as well. However, with these vehicles, as with most things mechanical and have rubber on the road, there is no guarantee as they get older (meaning lots of miles or conditions of use). Probably comes down to personal preference and compromise on a few things when it comes to decision time. Lots of variables to consider! Brad A. -- Brad Alston

My GMC pickup gets terrible gas mileage but it doesn't really get any worse with a trailer on board. I only paid $500 for it though and it enables a lot of fun so i just throw away the gas receipts.

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:50:56 PM UTC-4, Tony V wrote:
On 10/1/2012 10:07 PM, Craig R. wrote: As Tony said, small cars have issues when breaking hard. I know a person who pulled his glider with a Jeep Wrangler and the glider trailer (and glider) ended up rolling sideways down the freeway one afternoon. I have a friend who towed his LS4 behind a Toyota Solara. The LS4 was repairable. Tony

Wrangler certainly wasnt made for highway driving... not to mention highway towing. Pulled several trailers including an open trailered Blanik with a 4 cylinder Honda Accord, automatic. Coast to coast. Never felt that the power was insufficient, transmission was never damagged, rear brakes were going out at the pace of about 15K and gas mileage was horrible. VW Golf/jetta tdi is more than sufficient to do the job and to have the great gas mielage of 40 MPG and the DSG transmission was almost made for this type of activity.

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 4:43:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
VW Golf/jetta tdi is more than sufficient to do the job and to have the great gas mielage of 40 MPG and the DSG transmission was almost made for this type of activity.

I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!) Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..

I believe that "tow ratings" are a game of "chicken" played by the auto marketing departments. Some companies like VW choose not to play. There was no common standard for tow ratings until SAE came up with J2807. Here is a good article on J2807. Toyota is the only company that has implemented the standard.

Here's an interesting article on JS807:
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...t/viewall.html

I don't want to exceed the tow rating for the VW because I think that would make it very easy for my insurance company to welch out of paying a claim should I ever have an accident (also 'lawsuit').

I'm leaning towards getting a decent but fully depreciated "safe tow vehicle". The insurance cost of adding a second vehicle with liability insurance will only cost me $20 a year. Having a "beater" to tow gliders is not a bad way to keep your total costs down in the long run.

On 10/2/2012 8:14 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
The insurance cost of adding a second vehicle with liability
insurance will only cost me $20 a year.

Wow! Having my 1989 Caravan minivan on my insurance is $200/year, only
$50/year cheaper than our 2002 Camry, both for liability only. What
company are you with? Are you the only person on the policy?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT), son_of_flubber
wrote:


I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!)
Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..

Hmmmm.... I had a Golf IV Variant in Germany, and it also had that
1.000 lbs limitation - but only if the trailer did not have brakes.

The limit for a trailer with brakes was the mentioned 3.000 lbs limit.


Could you check again if you are reading your car's manual correctly,
please? I find it hard to believe that VW is limiting its cars in such
a drastic way.

On the other hand:
Reading the criteria that seem to make a good tow vehicle in the US
(heavy and a biiiiiiiig engine) I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.000
lbs limitation only is VW's way to get out oif the way of some
over-enthusiastic US lawyers...


Cheers from Germany
Andreas

whose current VW Passat Diesel tows a loaded Duo Discus trailer with
43 mpg at 55 mph, unfortunately for the price of $5.70 per gallon...

Absolutely. The US towing limits for identical cars are invariably lower for no good technical reason. I have a Sportwagen TDI that's good for 3,000 lbs in Germany and 1,000 lbs in the US (if you can actually get VW to put it in writing - it's in a "supplemental" manual that I had to request seperately).


On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT), son_of_flubber

wrote:





I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!)

Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..



Hmmmm.... I had a Golf IV Variant in Germany, and it also had that

1.000 lbs limitation - but only if the trailer did not have brakes.



The limit for a trailer with brakes was the mentioned 3.000 lbs limit.





Could you check again if you are reading your car's manual correctly,

please? I find it hard to believe that VW is limiting its cars in such

a drastic way.



On the other hand:

Reading the criteria that seem to make a good tow vehicle in the US

(heavy and a biiiiiiiig engine) I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.000

lbs limitation only is VW's way to get out oif the way of some

over-enthusiastic US lawyers...





Cheers from Germany

Andreas



whose current VW Passat Diesel tows a loaded Duo Discus trailer with

43 mpg at 55 mph, unfortunately for the price of $5.70 per gallon...

Get a friend who owns a Toyota FJ Cruiser!

We used mine to drag a 2-32 across a bog-like field to get it near enough to the trailer to load up. We needed all of the FJ's compound low and knarly tires to do the job!

Unfortunately, I don't like beer or booze, already had dinner, so had to settle for several "atta-boys".

bumper

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:33:29 PM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Absolutely. The US towing limits for identical cars are invariably lower for no good technical reason. I have a Sportwagen TDI that's good for 3,000 lbs in Germany and 1,000 lbs in the US (if you can actually get VW to put it in writing - it's in a "supplemental" manual that I had to request seperately).





On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT), son_of_flubber



wrote:











I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!)



Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..







Hmmmm.... I had a Golf IV Variant in Germany, and it also had that



1.000 lbs limitation - but only if the trailer did not have brakes.







The limit for a trailer with brakes was the mentioned 3.000 lbs limit.











Could you check again if you are reading your car's manual correctly,



please? I find it hard to believe that VW is limiting its cars in such



a drastic way.







On the other hand:



Reading the criteria that seem to make a good tow vehicle in the US



(heavy and a biiiiiiiig engine) I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.000



lbs limitation only is VW's way to get out oif the way of some



over-enthusiastic US lawyers...











Cheers from Germany



Andreas







whose current VW Passat Diesel tows a loaded Duo Discus trailer with



43 mpg at 55 mph, unfortunately for the price of $5.70 per gallon...

Would you have the same disregard for your gliders POH? I would certainly hope not! Tow ratings are set for some VERY good reasons - don't ignore them! Furthermore, they are set with MUCH shorter trailers in mind than glider trailers. I suggest that you Google "trailer towing accidents" before you decide to disregard these limitations.