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#11
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Intercoms & FSDOs
You seem to be determined to engender an FAA paperwork blizzard. If so,
please go for it and don't bother with these newsgroups. If you have a reasonable A&P who installs it and a reasonable IA who does your annuals, the FSDO will never have a clue as to what is going on. On the other hand, you seem to want to tweak the FSDOs nose and get them into the "approval" process where it is not necessary. Your call, and your airplane. Most of us out in the unwashed backwater airports don't give a good god damn about the FSDO, just about keeping our airplanes airworthy to the highest standards. Again, your call, and don't give me the crap about the FSDO pulling an inspection on you out of the blue. Jim -- "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." --Henry Ford "One's Too Many" wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 3, 6:27 pm, " wrote: It's up to the A&P to decide if the modification is a major or minor modification. I thought that was the way it is supposed to work too, as reading the regs seems to overtly state this. But in actual practice the A&P is now being basically required to seek permission from above whether he can declare something to be minor or not... that he is expected to assume everything is major unless the FSDO grants him permission to declare it minor after they review the details themselves. If they bounced back 337's that were minor alterations, it would help everyone out. I thought they were supposed to do exactly just that too -- to "decline" the 337 with a note stating that the job is minor and to log it as such. But that's not what's been happening in real life. Good luck Thanks, I'll probably need it, but my IA did say that the 337 for the PSE intercom should slide right thru the bureaucracy like greased butter since a TSO'd part is already an approved part and its installation manual also constitutes "approved data" for the 337 |
#12
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Intercoms & FSDOs
On Aug 3, 11:00 pm, One's Too Many wrote:
Thanks, I'll probably need it, but my IA did say that the 337 for the PSE intercom should slide right thru the bureaucracy like greased butter since a TSO'd part is already an approved part and its installation manual also constitutes "approved data" for the 337 Just hope they don't go tell you the intercom must also be STC'ed for your aircraft before they allow it or to go hire a DER to create approved data or to take it to one of those big city multi-million dollar avionics shops to get installed. Up here in northern Texas, an intercom installation is also considered a major alteration. My AP says they claim it modifies the basic design of the comm radio system. Must be a Texas thing. OTOH, the Air Gizmo dock for a Garmin x96 is deemed a minor alteration in this region and the GPS and dock can be installed for VFR-only under reference of AC-20-138a with only a logbook entry, even when hooked up to the ship's power and an external antenna mounted. Go figure. |
#13
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PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom?
-----Original Message-----
From: One's Too Many [mailto Posted At: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:37 PM Posted To: rec.aviation.owning Conversation: PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom? Subject: Intercoms & FSDOs .... them them from a Cessna/Beech/whatever parts dealer. But, in the case of the Flightcom intercom I originally wanted, since it is not PMA'd, TSO'd or STC'd therefore it is declared to be an "unapproved part" and hence illegal to install on a certificated airplane as an aftermarket upgrade. I guess the extra $200 the PSE intercom costs must be worth it since it should be considered the hassle-avoidance fee. Since the local FSDO's attitude will directly impact the manufacturers like Flightcom, why aren't those manufacturers involved in this issue? It shouldn't be up to the AI or AP to straighten out FSDO because they will suffer any retribution, but the manufacturers should be able to go to OKC and get some higher level directives issued shouldn't they? Sure, paying $200 extra is a small issue for the end user, but losing the entire sale has much more impact on the manufacturer. Follow the money... Kindest regards, Jim Carter Politicians fear most an armed, educated electorate. |
#14
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PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom?
They sell their panel mount intercoms to the experimental market and
anyone who wants to put one in a certified plane sorts out the FAA issues on their own. Here's a thread from over on the Piperowner's forum from someone who went thru a similar adventure. http://forums.piperowner.org/read/2/58522/58522/quote=1 BTW, is anyone else going to answer the poor fellow's original questions about the audio and music quality of a PS-Engineering PM3000? I'm kinda curious too because I just ordered one of these myself, along with a new ELT and a bunch of other stuff from Spruce since my Cherokee has just come up for annual and I'm tired of cables strung all over the floor from a portable intercom and I want to tidy up the interior with some upgrades. I selected the PM3000 over the Flightcom 403 because I'm already familiar with the FC 403 having installed a couple of these myself in friends' RV's I helped build, and they're ok I guess, but their sound quality doesn't exactly knock my socks off. I've heard music thru a PS-Engineering full audio panel in a friend's Glasair-III and it sounded great. I guess you get what you pay for. |
#15
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PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom?
CheckerBird wrote:
/snip/ BTW, is anyone else going to answer the poor fellow's original questions about the audio and music quality of a PS-Engineering PM3000? /snip/ As far as intercom operation goes, the biggest advantage the PS has over the Flightcomm is the fact that the MIC circuits are individual to each station, and that *only* the MIC that is in use will break squelch. The other station's MICS remain off-line. In the Flightcomm, when one person speaks, *all* the MICS go hot, and thus you hear a lot of background noise in the audio. The Flightcomm has been the budget standard intercom for many years, and they do a competent, reliable job of it. The PS, however, is also very well built, and a bit more refined. Happy Flying! Scott Skylane |
#16
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Intercoms & FSDOs
"RST Engineering" wrote in message ... Seems like some FSDO is always on a rampage...of COURSE an intercom is a minor alteration. Several FAA publications are quite explicit on what is major and what is minor, and a publication out of Ok City trumps the Houston FSDO. Your FSDO folks have their panties in a wad and are way off base. As a matter of fact, there is nothing in a part 91 aircraft that HAS to be TSOd, including transponders, altitude encoders, and ELTs. Read the requirements. They have to MEET the TSO spec, but they don't have to be themselves TSOd. Jim -- "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." --Henry Ford seems the Houston FSDO has been on a rampage against mechanics installing non-TSO'ed intercoms in spamcans and calling it a minor alteration. Can you toss me som links on the non TSO items for part 91 thanks. usenet mail at international ferry flights dot com will get to me |
#17
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PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom?
Thanks Scott, I kinda gleaned that info about the separate squelch
circuits from the PS web site. The common squelch circuit in cheaper intercoms really isn't that big of a deal WRT noise pickup in my experience however. The karaoke mode push-knob switchable music muting feature of the PM3000 is one of the main things that attracted me to this intercom. |
#18
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PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom?
I recall a review of panel mount intercoms some time in the past in Aviation
Consumer. I have a PS-6000, with Lightspeed 30-3G headsets. The XM satellite radio sounds great with this combination, including even classical music, with a high dynamic range. |
#19
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PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom?
One's,
Is it really worth $200 more than the comparable Flightcom 403? It's worth much more than that, because the 403 simply isn't comparable. Have you ever had trouble connecting different headsets from different brands to the same intercom? You'll see that with the 403, but you won't with a PSE unit. Have you ever noticed how ALL connected headset microphones open when one person speaks and the vox circuit opens? All the noise from all those mics gets transmitted into the intercom system as a consequence. That's what happens with a 403, but not with a PSE. I could go on... -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#20
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PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom?
On Aug 7, 3:38 am, Thomas Borchert
wrote: One's, Is it really worth $200 more than the comparable Flightcom 403? It's worth much more than that, because the 403 simply isn't comparable. Have you ever had trouble connecting different headsets from different brands to the same intercom? You'll see that with the 403, but you won't with a PSE unit. Have you ever noticed how ALL connected headset microphones open when one person speaks and the vox circuit opens? All the noise from all those mics gets transmitted into the intercom system as a consequence. That's what happens with a 403, but not with a PSE. I could go on... We finished up the installation late last night, tested it in the hangar and played music from the iPod through it and it does sound very, very good with my Denali headsets. The PSE was a wise choice indeed. My A&P/IA hopes to have all his paperwork completed sometime tomorrow but I won't have time to actually flight test the new intercom until the weekend. |
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