Tamed by the Tailwheel

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:58:41 -0500, dave
wrote:

Dave,
I did a lot of my private with Azher in a J3. When I got my Citabria,
7eca, Azher did my check out. I hadn't flown a taildragger in a few
years and my landing were consistantly too fast. He noticed that I was
spending too much time looking at my airspeed. He had me land without
looking at the airspeed. It's hard not to peek but once you cut the
throttle abeam the numbers, just fly the correct attitude. I'm not
sure if that would work with the SD but it really helped me. Although
I'm sure that you can fly a faster downwind, I found that it really
helped me to slow to 90MPH on downwind. Of course, in my airplane
slowing to 90 isn't too far off cruise speed

BTW, both times I was scheduled to fly with Azher in the SD it was down
for maintenance. The first time we ended up taking the Great Lakes.
The second time was for my BFR and we took the Stearman. One of these
days, I really like to fly an SD!! Maybe I shouldn't, it might make me
want to sell my 7ECA and upgade.

Dave
68 7ECA

wrote:
Great advice Dave. I guess I'll listen to you even if you have only a
few hundred hours in the SD. ;-)

Dave


Dave and Dave,

I am toying with the idea of working on a taildragger endorsement this
summer. I've been to VanSant a number of times but always on my
motorcycle, never flew there. I currenty rent at N10 and KLOM. Would
you guys recommend VanSant as a good choice for this training?
Rich Russell (no relation to one of the Daves)

Absolutely! You can still train in a cub or a champ. Just make sure
you book well in advance. It's best if you can schedule time on
weekdays.
Dave
68 7ECA

Richard Russell wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:58:41 -0500, dave
wrote:


Dave,
I did a lot of my private with Azher in a J3. When I got my Citabria,
7eca, Azher did my check out. I hadn't flown a taildragger in a few
years and my landing were consistantly too fast. He noticed that I was
spending too much time looking at my airspeed. He had me land without
looking at the airspeed. It's hard not to peek but once you cut the
throttle abeam the numbers, just fly the correct attitude. I'm not
sure if that would work with the SD but it really helped me. Although
I'm sure that you can fly a faster downwind, I found that it really
helped me to slow to 90MPH on downwind. Of course, in my airplane
slowing to 90 isn't too far off cruise speed

BTW, both times I was scheduled to fly with Azher in the SD it was down
for maintenance. The first time we ended up taking the Great Lakes.
The second time was for my BFR and we took the Stearman. One of these
days, I really like to fly an SD!! Maybe I shouldn't, it might make me
want to sell my 7ECA and upgade.

Dave
68 7ECA

wrote:

Great advice Dave. I guess I'll listen to you even if you have only a
few hundred hours in the SD. ;-)

Dave



Dave and Dave,

I am toying with the idea of working on a taildragger endorsement this
summer. I've been to VanSant a number of times but always on my
motorcycle, never flew there. I currenty rent at N10 and KLOM. Would
you guys recommend VanSant as a good choice for this training?
Rich Russell (no relation to one of the Daves)

perfect thread for me since i just did my first tailwheel lesson
yesterday. citabria 7gcbc. runway 9 wind 180@15 or so. some gustiness
but mostly just a strong-steady blow. for a first lesson i sure got my
money's worth. by the end, she had me running on one wheel and holding
it right down the centerline. plan on getting the tw endorsment then
some aerobatics and lots of spin and unusual (like in how the hell did
i wind up upside down and backwards???)attitude training.


dan

wrote:

somewhere between that required for a wheel landing and a three
point.

I've found the SuperD difficult to get to flair to the three point
position. I've had to almost pry back to get it there and then relax
backpressure a bit so it doesn't go too nose high. (I'm not
recommending
this technique, just mentioning that I've experienced difficulty
getting
the SuperD into a nice three point attitude.) I don't find the same
problem with the regular Decathlon, so I guessed it was the extra
weight
up front?

btw, I've flown with Azhar, mostly in the Stearman and Great Lakes, so
say "Hi from Rick Macklem up in Canada", when you see him.
Have fun and good luck with it, rick

rmack,

Trim the airplane more aggressively on short final if you are having
difficulty getting the nose up. Slide in some extra nose up trim when
on short final, it will help. If you run out of elevator, slide in
nose down trim to get more effective elevator area but be prepared to
pull like crazy to take advantage of it.

It's impossible to get it "too nose high" on landing. Believe it or
not, it's okay to roll the tailwheel first. You touch down even more
slowly and have better control and less risk of a loss of control
accident on rollout. The slower you touch down the less energy you
have to manage during rollout.

All the best,
Rick

On 12 Jan 2005 08:25:57 -0800, wrote:

And yes, the leaf gear will spread far enough on a bounce to allow a
prop strike.

So will the bugees on a Cub. Don't ask me how I know!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

With due respect to all who have replied with various techniques, it
seems everyone is working with way too much airspeed! Now I don't claim
to be the base ace or ass, whichever comes to mind, but I do have a lot
of time in aircraft with the wheel in the rear and god only knows how
many thousands of landings with them (perhaps 20-30,000+?). The
apparent discussions as to wheel or tail aka "3 point" is amusing since
the ultimate outcome is supposed to be a safe and uneventful landing to
a full stop...isn't it?
In thousands of hours in crop dusting in a variety of aircraft,
dirt/grass/asphalt/concrete for landing areas, I never knew if it was
going to be a 3 point or a wheel landing. Most of the time it was a
slow speed wheel landing with minimum roll and braking or reverse
thrust. We didn't have time to screw around with rollouts and holding
centerline or whatever. We needed to land, get reloaded and back into
the air. The time we spent not spraying was non-revenue. Many of the
strips were barely as wide as the landing gear and difficult to work
from/on.
The biggest flaw I have seen in modern pilots is speed control and
right behind that is not knowing how to use rudder/aileron coordination
for landings. It continually amazes me at the lack of skill or even
knowledge of CFI's when it comes to slips with any degree of accuracy.
It all seems to be very pedantic with little or no pilot skills
involved. I am continually reminded of that when I fly with pilots who
have gotten their certificates in the past 15 years or so.
There is no magic in flying tail draggers any more than flying trikes
vs tailwheel, turboprops vs radial engine vs piston. Its a matter of
good technique and from what I read across the boards, it is a dying
art. No wonder I am called an old gray haired hardnosed as$hole.
Anybody can fly at cruise speeds. Who can fly on the lowest reaches of
the envelope with complete control and understanding of what they are
doing? There is the challenge.
Ol Shy & Not So Bashful (this time)

wrote in message
oups.com...
With due respect to all who have replied with various techniques, it
seems everyone is working with way too much airspeed! Now I don't
claim
to be the base ace or ass, whichever comes to mind, but I do have a
lot
of time in aircraft with the wheel in the rear and god only knows how
many thousands of landings with them (perhaps 20-30,000+?). The
apparent discussions as to wheel or tail aka "3 point" is amusing
since
the ultimate outcome is supposed to be a safe and uneventful landing
to
a full stop...isn't it?
In thousands of hours in crop dusting in a variety of aircraft,
dirt/grass/asphalt/concrete for landing areas, I never knew if it was
going to be a 3 point or a wheel landing. Most of the time it was a
slow speed wheel landing with minimum roll and braking or reverse
thrust. We didn't have time to screw around with rollouts and holding
centerline or whatever. We needed to land, get reloaded and back into
the air. The time we spent not spraying was non-revenue. Many of the
strips were barely as wide as the landing gear and difficult to work
from/on.
The biggest flaw I have seen in modern pilots is speed control and
right behind that is not knowing how to use rudder/aileron
coordination
for landings. It continually amazes me at the lack of skill or even
knowledge of CFI's when it comes to slips with any degree of accuracy.
It all seems to be very pedantic with little or no pilot skills
involved. I am continually reminded of that when I fly with pilots who
have gotten their certificates in the past 15 years or so.
There is no magic in flying tail draggers any more than flying trikes
vs tailwheel, turboprops vs radial engine vs piston. Its a matter of
good technique and from what I read across the boards, it is a dying
art. No wonder I am called an old gray haired hardnosed as$hole.
Anybody can fly at cruise speeds. Who can fly on the lowest reaches of
the envelope with complete control and understanding of what they are
doing? There is the challenge.
Ol Shy & Not So Bashful (this time)

Are you telling me I work my airplanes at too high an airspeed, and am
advising others to do the same?

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI Retired
for private email; make necessary changes between ( )
dhenriques(at)(delete all this)earthlink(dot)net

Todd
So, if the tailwheel touches first, does that make it a tailwheel
landing? Or, if the mains touch first followed a millisecond later by
the tail, does that make it a 3 point? Are we talking split hairs here
or what? OK, what is the difference in the attitude of the aircraft for
a 3 point vs a wheel landing? If the mains touch first and the
tailwheel is 2" off the ground, does that make it a wheel landing, or
is it simply a lazy 3 point? Could it possibly have anything to do with
the aircraft, how the pilot is seated, his/her visibility forward, the
weight of the aircraft/loading, or any myriad of factors that affect
the touchdown? Hell every landing is a unique animal and event
regardless of the aircraft flown or the conditions.
And, as a pompous note, the 20-30,000 landings in tail wheel aircraft
do not take into account the thousands of other landings included in
22,000 hours of flying. I'm delighted to see my reply has generated so
much comment. It's almost as if I insulted the abilities of everyone on
the board who is flying or has ever flown an airplane with a tail
wheel. When I began flying, the trikes were still new in general
aviation back in the 50's. Hell I don't have all the answers but I've
probably made more mistakes than any 100 pilots here put together and
somehow managed to survive them. That seems to indicate I may have
learned something from it all?
Grinning Best Regards
Ol Shy & Bashful

Dudley
Of course not. Your points are well taken. Why not take a hard look at
my point of view as well? I still think too many pilots simply are
afraid of working in the low airspeed region where most accidents are
developed and happen. Forget the high performance aircraft that you are
fond of and think of the low speed stuff that most of the pilots here
fly.
Why are there stall/spin accidents? Because the pilots didn't know how
to fly in the low speed region and got crossed up. Was it because of
cruise speed? Nope. It was in the pattern and misuse of speed or at
least lower speeds. How about running out of runway? A blown approach
due to excess speed and unable to make the first 1/3 of the runway
(assuming it is shorter than 5000').
I'll still maintain, most modern pilots don't know how to fly at the
lowest range of their aircraft envelope and that is a major contributor
to accidents.
Best Professional Regards
Rocky