Nebo-U new russian antistealth radar

From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars
working in the range of meter's waves.

Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use?

Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2. They
needed centimeter wavelengths. About 15 years ago the U.S. was playing with
millimeter wavelengths if memory serves.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

(B2431) wrote:

From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars
working in the range of meter's waves.

Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use?

He probably does.

The article on the F-117 kill (http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm)
indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles.

But... The inbound tracking was reportedly accomplished by a 1950's vintage
Soviet radar operating in the 165 - 190 cm range (158 - 181 MHZ). Useful
for ground-based early warning, but pretty much useless for fire control
purposes.

Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2.

True for any sort of precise tracking, mapping and fire control. The big
Chain Home and German early warning systems were easy targets.

They needed centimeter wavelengths.

Especially for airborne use. Size, weight and power consumption become
much greater issues.

About 15 years ago the U.S. was playing with millimeter wavelengths if
memory serves.

I've been out since 12/1992, but I do remember reading about some work on
systems operating in the 20 GHz - 40GHz range.

| George Ruch
| AF, MSgt, ret.

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars
working in the range of meter's waves.

Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use?

Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2. They
needed centimeter wavelengths. About 15 years ago the U.S. was playing with
millimeter wavelengths if memory serves.

True. That's why NEBO-U is so important development in
the field of radar design.

Michael


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/11/2004 3:13 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote in message
...
From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars
working in the range of meter's waves.

Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use?

Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2.
They
needed centimeter wavelengths. About 15 years ago the U.S. was playing with
millimeter wavelengths if memory serves.

True. That's why NEBO-U is so important development in
the field of radar design.

Michael


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

yawn

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" wrote in message
.net...

"--= Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí =--" wrote in message
...
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, BOB URZ "sound
wrote:

RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars
working in the range of meter's waves. It was designed in Nizhniy
Novgorod Scientific Research Institute of Radio Engineering (NNIIRT).
Leading specialists NNIIRT which is headed by the designer, Aleksandr
Zachepitskiy, have received a State prize for the creation of the
three-dimensional "Nebo-U" radar with a digital phased antenna array,
the Privolzh'e Novoe Telegrafnoe Agenstvo is reporting. The radar is
an automated complex which provides all weather control of the
airspace at a range of several hundred kilometers. The "Nebo-U" is
able to detect small-size and barely visible targets, including also
those built using Stealth Technology.

Michael

So, how did they test it so they know it works?
Buy a B2 and F-117 off of Ebay?

No, they got their own free sample to play with from Yugoslavia. Not
that
they really needed it to develop the radar.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm
http://www.serbnews.com/vk.html

Not to mention the fact that stealth designs evolved from original work
done
by Russian scientists in the first place!


Whose rover is on the surface of Mars right now and whose isn't?
Check out the NASA or JPL websites to see all of the missions that are
currently underway. Russia flys a 1970's Soviet rocket to supply the space
station and launches sats for people with hard cash. It's own weather
sats,
nuke arms verification sats and GPS sats are in horrible shape. When the
talk about a new space race was mentioned, Russia never came up.

Before you open your big, fat, ignorant mouth and claim the F-177
shootdown
is propaganda, the DoD has verified the story:

http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/news99/uns99072.htm


20 year old technology at that time. The USAF didn't even bother to go
back
to blow it up.
Russia still doesn't have a stealthy aircraft, neither does Europe or
China.
Russia is just flying around in warmed over Sukhoi designs. When a Phoenix
missile takes out your Sukhoi at 200 miles out and you can't even see
where
it came from, you'll be saying "I wish I had stealth" just as your
parachute
opens.
Even the super new Eurofighter is about as stealthy as an elephant in a
china shop. Maybe that's because it took the Euro-bureaucrats 30 years to
build it?

While the signature of the Eurofighter isn't as low as that of the much
fabled F-22 (do I add the /A as well?), it is considerably lower than any in
service aircraft (and many of the planned ones as well).

On a slight divergence, how long has it taken for F-22 to get to where it is
now? And F-35? I remember the team for the demos for JAST (or whatever its
project name was back then) when I was still at school??

And whos computer chips and DSP's are running it?
Is there a X86ski?

Why don't you take your x86 out of your Wal-Mart PC and read where it's
manufactured. See the little letters that say "Malaysia"? Maybe you got
one
that says Phillipines, or Costa Rica.


I think it's called "economics". Funny thing though...they don't say
"Made
in Russia" on them.

You might also want to look at how much foreign stuff is in U$ military
equipment these days, you'll probably **** yourself.


No Sukhoi's flying over my house.

--
--=( Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí )=----- ----- --- - -
Rebel Alliance Galactic Usenet News Service
--- --- ---=================----------- - -

In article ,
"Ian" wrote:

While the signature of the Eurofighter isn't as low as that of the
much fabled F-22 (do I add the /A as well?), it is considerably lower
than any in service aircraft (and many of the planned ones as well).

You *are* excluding the F-117 from that comment, right? The
Eurofighter, while using some RCS reduction tech, is nothing like a true
stealthy airframe, and isn't stealthy at all when carrying weapons from
many angles. Basically, they took it from "barn door" to "manhole
cover" in RCS.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In message , George Ruch
writes
(B2431) wrote:

From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars
working in the range of meter's waves.

Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use?

He probably does.

The article on the F-117 kill (http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm)
indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles.

But... The inbound tracking was reportedly accomplished by a 1950's vintage
Soviet radar operating in the 165 - 190 cm range (158 - 181 MHZ). Useful
for ground-based early warning, but pretty much useless for fire control
purposes.

Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2.

True for any sort of precise tracking, mapping and fire control.

Cape Matapan?

The big
Chain Home and German early warning systems were easy targets.

Chain Home certainly was not.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

"George Ruch" wrote:

The article on the F-117 kill
indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles.
snippet from the link:

"Russian Minister of Defence Igor Sergeyev announced that the stealthiest of
the world's aircraft was brough down by two SA-6 surface-to-air missiles.
Yugoslav Air Force officials said that the F-117 was also hit by one AAM
launched from a MiG fighter aircraft."

This is a Venik article from 1999 and as usual has not been updated. The
information he used in the article was derived from information supplied to
him from Djordje Pavicevic who was a Serb teenager back in 1999. Pavicevic
is the guy who claiming to have seen captured F-117 pilots and witnessed the
wrecks of a B-52H and been shown images of a downed B-2A. The Russian
Defence Minister, quoted in the article, was wrong too about the SA-6
GAINFUL. The Yugoslav military has revealed that the missiles used were SA-3
GOA of the 250th Rocket Brigade. The boosters and the nose cone from the
missiles launched that night are on display in the Yugoslav Aeronautical
Museum. The claim of the MiG fighter came from the Yugoslav Ministry of
Information. Yugoslav MiG-29 pilots revealed after the war that they had
fired no air-to-air missiles in any encounter and were upset that their
combat reports had been altered by groups and individuals in the Yugoslav
Ministry of Information.

TJ

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
"Ian" wrote:

While the signature of the Eurofighter isn't as low as that of the
much fabled F-22 (do I add the /A as well?), it is considerably lower
than any in service aircraft (and many of the planned ones as well).

You *are* excluding the F-117 from that comment, right? The
Eurofighter, while using some RCS reduction tech, is nothing like a true
stealthy airframe, and isn't stealthy at all when carrying weapons from
many angles. Basically, they took it from "barn door" to "manhole
cover" in RCS.

Sorry - yeah I was excluding the F-117 and B-2.

Eurofighter's original concept was to be stealthy, i'll agree to that.
However, given the four (originally more) partner nations requirements, it
was never going to work. Thats when they went for the "stealthier" option.
The concept of operations would seem to be scoot to within range of the
weapon and then bug out. The cruise missiles they'll carry (Storm Shadow
and Taurus) have ranges that allow them to do this. AMRAAM (and hopefully
Meteor when it is finsihed) will allow this in AA.

I know its dangerous to say this, but when do we next envisage a war with
Air to Air? GWII didn't have it, and had next to no 'real' SAM activity (if
you discount the patriot attacks on the RAF and USN(F-18?)). GWI had a bit
more, but that was more due to the missions the RAF undertook with JP233 and
low level bombing (the standard tactic developed for 'cold war attacks using
Tornado and predecessors). The last true air to air I can think of, would
be the Falklands, when the AIM-9L (I think?) was given its operational debut
(and what a debut)

I don't doubt if the 4 partner countries had the money, they would develop
an F-22 level stealth aircraft. I know they're working on some very
interesting concepts for future aircraft that will be at that level if not
better.

(PS - I've recently seen a concept drawing of an F-22 with external stores,
and not just fuel tanks. Won't that really harm the RCS etc, or have they
developed stealthy weapons and pylons? Or was it just some bored aviation
artist?)
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
George Ruch writes:
(B2431) wrote:

From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars
working in the range of meter's waves.

Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use?

He probably does.

The article on the F-117 kill (http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm)
indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles.

I've got to make a correction, here. The F-117 kill was made by an
SA-3 site. This is important.

But... The inbound tracking was reportedly accomplished by a 1950's vintage
Soviet radar operating in the 165 - 190 cm range (158 - 181 MHZ). Useful
for ground-based early warning, but pretty much useless for fire control
purposes.

Which, BTW, is the normal EW/Air Search radar of the SA-3. Really old
missiles, like the SA-2 and SA-3 have, oddly enough, an advantage when
engaging stealth aircraft. The missiles are Command Guided - all of
the tracking, and all of the smarts required to compute the intercept
and guide the missile, are on the ground. The missile itself is
fairly simple, with an autopilot to keep it pointed right, and a radio
receiver to pick up the steering commands sent from the ground.
The tracking of the target by the fire control system can also be
performed manually, with human operators designating the point that
represents teh target. This makes integrating passive tracking, like
telescopes or TV cameras (Either normal or LLTV) into the system a lot
easier. Humans are also better at picking faint of intermittent
targets out of clutter - it's the way our brains are wired.

With a well-trained crew, a command guided SAM, using a long-wave
radar to let them know that something's there, could pick the airplane
visually, and engage that way. Which is pretty much what happened.

A more advanced system, with high resolution autotracking radars, and,
say, a Semiactive homer in the missiles, isn't going to be able to
have enough time to engage. Stealth doesn't mean that it disappears,
it menas that the detection ranges are much shorter.


--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster