"Seeking Foreign Buyers For Osprey"

I recall hearing that the Osprey saw some use in Afghaniland. Or is
that just a bad rumor?

On Jun 13, 7:55 pm, Vince wrote:

don't worry these china dolls will be kept very far from any real combat.

Vince


Please clarify "china doll."

As we use the term it applies to the fragility or lack of
survivability of the platform. Are you now insinuating you know
anything about it's combat survivability/susceptibility?

Just wondering, because I know that most details of S/S for this
platform are classified. And I don't remember you being present
during the seven years I was involved with testing those specific
systems.

BB


I guess everybody has some mountain to climb.
It's just fate whether you live in Kansas or Tibet...

Dan wrote:
Vince wrote:
Rob Arndt wrote:
On Jun 13, 2:46?pm, wrote:
On Jun 13, 3:40 pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:





On Jun 13, 5:28 pm, wrote:
On Jun 13, 12:35 pm, Vince wrote:
David E. Powell wrote:
Overseas sales are a pipe dream except either to Saudi Arabia as a
replacement bribe stream or to someone else subject to US pressure
As Japan has considered F-22, maybe they think that Japan might
want
the Osprey as well. Search and Rescue, moving people about, etc....
it is inferior to helicopters for almost all such purposes.
The Osprey is a one trick pony, and the trick is very expensive.
It requires the power of a heavy lift helicopter to transport medium
lift cargo in a very crowded cabin for such a big heavy vehicle
the cabin is 68 inches wide,
and 66.23 inches high,
that is 5" 6" high and 5 foot 8"' wide
Vince
At a speed of 214 Kts and ceiling of 26,000 ft. it's going to be an
easy shoot-down.
I thought it was faster, but going low enough can be an anti-shootdown
tactic too.
Uh-huh..........that's what got a lot of choppers shot down in 'Nam.





Saw one of them buzz a vacation town here in South Jersey a couple
days back, did a buzz-over at the local airport, fun!- Hide
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Anyone wanna take bets on the Ospreys going to Iraq in September?
First loss due to combat, flying accident, or technical malfunction?

Rob


don't worry these china dolls will be kept very far from any real combat.

Vince

Just like you and aren't.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Can't quite parse it.

Most of the deaths in Iraq are due to IEDs. Most of the actual shooting
will take place in cities. Neither have much to do with the V-22. It is
not well designed for emergency evacuation either.

The V-22 will be used as a ferry from safe protected base to safe
protected base, or to wide open areas where it will land and deliver
fuel and men to waiting vehicles. It will then be touted as "combat
proved"

Vince

Vince wrote:

Most of the deaths in Iraq are due to IEDs. Most of the actual
shooting will take place in cities. Neither have much to do with the
V-22. It is not well designed for emergency evacuation either.

Remember this mess?: http://awfulcommercials.com/movies/ospreyprint.jpg

Pat

BlackBeard wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:55 pm, Vince wrote:
don't worry these china dolls will be kept very far from any real combat.

Vince


Please clarify "china doll."

As we use the term it applies to the fragility or lack of
survivability of the platform. Are you now insinuating you know
anything about it's combat survivability/susceptibility?

Just wondering, because I know that most details of S/S for this
platform are classified. And I don't remember you being present
during the seven years I was involved with testing those specific
systems.

BB

It will be kept far from anything that might scratch its paint
this turkey is a political airplane.
It has no clear "combat" mission in Iraq

The problems of the V-22 are in its fundamental design. It uses heavy
lift horsepower at ultra heavy cost to pick up medium lift cargo which
must also fit in its small cabin through a rear door.

it's a one trick pony, it's faster in horizontal flight. But tis still
a truck


Vince

It will be kept far from anything that might scratch its paint
this turkey is a political airplane.
It has no clear "combat" mission in Iraq

Wonderful, the "Prince Harry" of military a/c!!!

Rob

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dallas Morning News
June 12, 2007


that's one for it to kill people from other countries for a charge.

On Jun 13, 4:18?pm, "Paul J. Adam" wrote:
In message .com,
David E. Powell writes

I thought it was faster, but going low enough can be an anti-shootdown
tactic too.

If there's a sufficient density of Bad Guys, then going low exposes you
to hundreds or thousands of small-arms rather than handfuls of MR-SAMs.

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides

Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk

Even stray fire that misses the troops or pilots, but hits a critical
flight system will probably send the Osprey right into the ground.
Transitional flight in a combat zone is gonna be a bitch anyway, but
since Iraq is so large, just the regular flight in transit to the
target area or base will expose the rotorcraft to small arms and RPG
fire at low altitude.

To me, it would be better to fly in an unarmed Fa-223 Drache carrying
troops into combat in Berlin during the heat of battle with Hanna
Reitsch at the controls than to fly over any part of Iraq in an
Osprey, even with escort... but that's just me.

I pity those poor soldiers whose ride into Iraq will be the Osprey and
whose ride home will be in a bodybag inside a C-130 or other
transport...

Rob

On Jun 14, 4:28 am, Vince wrote:
BlackBeard wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:55 pm, Vince wrote:
don't worry these china dolls will be kept very far from any real combat.

Vince

Please clarify "china doll."

As we use the term it applies to the fragility or lack of
survivability of the platform. Are you now insinuating you know
anything about it's combat survivability/susceptibility?

Just wondering, because I know that most details of S/S for this
platform are classified. And I don't remember you being present
during the seven years I was involved with testing those specific
systems.

BB

It will be kept far from anything that might scratch its paint
this turkey is a political airplane.
It has no clear "combat" mission in Iraq

The problems of the V-22 are in its fundamental design. It uses heavy
lift horsepower at ultra heavy cost to pick up medium lift cargo which
must also fit in its small cabin through a rear door.


The entire aft opens up similar to the C-130.

BB

I guess everybody has some mountain to climb.
It's just fate whether you live in Kansas or Tibet...

On Jun 14, 10:43 pm, Rob Arndt wrote:

Even stray fire that misses the troops or pilots, but hits a critical
flight system will probably send the Osprey right into the ground.

And this is different from any other aircraft how?


Transitional flight in a combat zone is gonna be a bitch anyway,

As in any troop carrying helicopter...

but
since Iraq is so large, just the regular flight in transit to the
target area or base will expose the rotorcraft to small arms and RPG
fire at low altitude.

Why fly low, it has a higher ceiling than the helo it is meant to
replace, and has more counter-measures and survivability systems than
those helos. So it has a better chance of surviving if hit. If it is
flying low, compare the chances of hitting something going by at 170
knots versus 240+ knots with an RPG. Go ahead and stand off the
highway. Try to hit a VW beetle going by at the speed limit with a
baseball. Then try that with a speeding Lexus going about 80. You
don't get to practice either, they pass once.


BB

I guess everybody has some mountain to climb.
It's just fate whether you live in Kansas or Tibet...