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#71
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
On Sep 4, 2:58*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 3, 9:30*am, wrote: By reading what he wrote and making the assumption he was telling the truth. Shoot, the video has my ATC transmissions including the approach facility (Jackson Approach) I was headed to the NE practice area so really not to much assumption needed regarding location of my activities LOL Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in? Cheers |
#72
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in? Cheers Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear himself, thanks for clearing that up :-) |
#73
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
On Sep 6, 12:36*am, "John E. Carty"
wrote: Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in? Cheers Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear himself, thanks for clearing that up :-) It's clear the OP thinks he conducted a safe flight that enhanced his skills. For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy. This horse is pretty much dead, isn't it? Beating on it just makes hamburger (horseburger?). |
#74
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
a wrote
I don't have the documentation handy and my memory may be in error, but I think the Mooney's limits when used in the general utility category are 30 degrees pitch 60 degrees bank. ˙Since it's used mainly for XC, mostly under IFR, there's no reason to ever come close to those limits. I wondered if the Sundowner certification was markedly different.- FAR 23.3 (b) The utility category is limited to airplanes that have a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for limited acrobatic operation. Airplanes certificated in the utility category may be used in any of the operations covered under paragraph (a) of this section and in limited acrobatic operations. Limited acrobatic operation includes: (1) Spins (if approved for the particular type of airplane); and (2) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, or similar maneuvers, in which the angle of bank is more than 60 degrees but not more than 90 degrees. For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy. I would be interested in knowing which "Utility Category" Mooney that you fly that has specific pitch and bank limits less than those listed in 23.3. Bob Moore |
#75
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
On Sep 6, 2:49*pm, Robert Moore wrote:
a wrote I don't have the documentation handy and my memory may be in error, but I think the Mooney's limits when used in the general utility category are 30 degrees pitch 60 degrees bank. ˙Since it's used mainly for XC, mostly under IFR, there's no reason to ever come close to those limits. I wondered if the Sundowner certification was markedly different.- FAR 23.3 (b) The utility category is limited to airplanes that have a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for limited acrobatic operation. Airplanes certificated in the utility category may be used in any of the operations covered under paragraph (a) of this section and in limited acrobatic operations. Limited acrobatic operation includes: (1) Spins (if approved for the particular type of airplane); and (2) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, or similar maneuvers, in which the angle of bank is more than 60 degrees but not more than 90 degrees. For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy. I would be interested in knowing which "Utility Category" Mooney that you fly that has specific pitch and bank limits less than those listed in 23.3. Bob Moore The manual and placards are pretty specific about pitch and bank limits. |
#76
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
a wrote
The manual and placards are pretty specific about pitch and bank limits. I would then suggest that the aircraft is not certificated in the "Utility Category" and that it is then a "Normal Category" aircraft. Bob Moore Section 23.3: Airplane categories. (a) The normal category is limited to airplanes that have a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for nonacrobatic operation. Nonacrobatic operation includes: (1) Any maneuver incident to normal flying; (2) Stalls (except whip stalls); and (3) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, in which the angle of bank is not more than 60 degrees. (b) The utility category is limited to airplanes that have a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for limited acrobatic operation. Airplanes certificated in the utility category may be used in any of the operations covered under paragraph (a) of this section and in limited acrobatic operations. Limited acrobatic operation includes: (1) Spins (if approved for the particular type of airplane); and (2) Lazy eights, chandelles, and steep turns, or similar maneuvers, in which the angle of bank is more than 60 degrees but not more than 90 degrees. (c) The acrobatic category is limited to airplanes that have a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of nine or less, a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less, and intended for use without restrictions, other than those shown to be necessary as a result of required flight tests. (d) The commuter category is limited to propeller-driven, multiengine airplanes that have a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of 19 or less, and a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 19,000 pounds or less. The commuter category operation is limited to any maneuver incident to normal flying, stalls (except whip stalls), and steep turns, in which the angle of bank is not more than 60 degrees. (e) Except for commuter category, airplanes may be type certificated in more than one category if the requirements of each requested category are met. |
#77
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
On Sep 5, 8:15*pm, "Flaps_50!" wrote:
On Sep 4, 2:58*am, BeechSundowner wrote: On Sep 3, 9:30*am, wrote: By reading what he wrote and making the assumption he was telling the truth. Shoot, the video has my ATC transmissions including the approach facility (Jackson Approach) I was headed to the NE practice area so really not to much assumption needed regarding location of my activities LOL Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in? Did you look at the sectional. The answer is there. I already told you my location. |
#78
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
On Sep 7, 11:51*pm, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 5, 8:15*pm, "Flaps_50!" wrote: On Sep 4, 2:58*am, BeechSundowner wrote: On Sep 3, 9:30*am, wrote: By reading what he wrote and making the assumption he was telling the truth. Shoot, the video has my ATC transmissions including the approach facility (Jackson Approach) I was headed to the NE practice area so really not to much assumption needed regarding location of my activities LOL Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in? Did you look at the sectional. *The answer is there. *I already told you my location. Nope, but I can see lots of restricted airspace and victors so where is this NE training area exactly? Cheers |
#79
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
On Sep 6, 4:36*pm, "John E. Carty" wrote:
Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in? Cheers Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear himself, thanks for clearing that up :-) Pot - kettle? |
#80
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Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video
On Sep 7, 4:29*am, a wrote:
On Sep 6, 12:36*am, "John E. Carty" wrote: Nice evasion. What class airspace were you in? Cheers Finally I know what my grandfather meant about a dog that barks just to hear himself, thanks for clearing that up :-) It's clear the OP thinks he conducted a safe flight that enhanced his skills. For those of us who fly utility certified airplanes with specific pitch and bank limitations it seems or seemed foolhardy. This horse is pretty much dead, isn't it? Beating on it just makes hamburger (horseburger?). Yes, I agree. At least the awareness of serious issues has been raised tho' Cheers |
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