F15E/1941

In message , Jeb Hoge
writes
Hey, once you've gone winchester in the Beagles, do you thing the jets
could slice a few of the attacking Japanese planes successfully with
midair passes?

Don't think so - and you want those Beagles as intact as you can for as
long as you can. Be a shame to lose half your force to a golden BB by a
determined rear-gunner.

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

writes
Hey, once you've gone winchester in the Beagles, do you thing the jets
could slice a few of the attacking Japanese planes successfully with
midair passes?

Don't think so - and you want those Beagles as intact as you can for as
long as you can. Be a shame to lose half your force to a golden BB by a
determined rear-gunner.

--
Well if the nukes weren't disallowed you could use a one or two on the
japanese fleet the chase down the the air armada and use one of the
remaining nukes in a airburst close aboard

In article cb7vc.4394$1L4.671@okepread02, "william cogswell"
wrote:

writes
Hey, once you've gone winchester in the Beagles, do you thing the jets
could slice a few of the attacking Japanese planes successfully with
midair passes?

Don't think so - and you want those Beagles as intact as you can for as
long as you can. Be a shame to lose half your force to a golden BB by a
determined rear-gunner.

--
Well if the nukes weren't disallowed you could use a one or two on the
japanese fleet the chase down the the air armada and use one of the
remaining nukes in a airburst close aboard



I may be getting into sensitive areas of the arming system, but it would
sound like a pretty fair navigational challenge to plot the lob-toss
delivery such that it detonates on, or at least in front, or a moving
formation. At what altitude were the Japanese aircraft? Is there a
fusing option for that height?

As long as you get it in front of them, however, even if you don't knock
anything down -- it's very hard for blind pilots to attack or land.

"Paul J. Adam" wrote
Paul F Austin writes
500 pound bombs aren't ship killers for ships that size. 2000 pound bombs
may be. After thinking about it, a hard target penetrator fuzed to go off
after exiting below the keel may be the most lethal way of attacking
large
ships. The explosive fill makes a torpedo look small and there's a fair
chance of breaking the ship's back.

21" torpedo warheads ran around ~800lb of Torpex at the time (UK Mark
VIII - 640lb Torpex for the US Mark 14), which sounds competitive for
BLU-109/B (if a bit smaller than Mark 84)

That said, if you could get an under-keel detonation with any of those,
it will *hurt* a ship of that era.

You're right about the BLU-109 fill. Thanks for the correction. How does a
modern insensitive explosive fill compare to Torpex?

A series of sonic booms would sure as hell wake up Pearl Harbor.
Is a Beagle able to carry Harpoons?
BTW I was one surprised 104 driver when my AIM9B growled nice and loud
at a C47. Coming in from the portside low it had a good look at #1's
exhaust stack. But then it was first conceived as a kamikaze-killer.
Walt BJ

On 1 Jun 2004 20:05:13 -0700, (WaltBJ) wrote:

A series of sonic booms would sure as hell wake up Pearl Harbor.
Is a Beagle able to carry Harpoons?

The Korean ones will carry the SLAM-ER but the impression I get is
that your standard E can't. AFAIK the B-52 is the only USAF aircraft
that can carry them.



BTW I was one surprised 104 driver when my AIM9B growled nice and loud
at a C47. Coming in from the portside low it had a good look at #1's
exhaust stack. But then it was first conceived as a kamikaze-killer.
Walt BJ

"Vicente Vazquez" wrote in message
om...
I guess the simple sight of "birds" like a pair of F-15E's with U.S.
markings would:

I doubt it. The US markings in WW2 don't look like what we have now.

Ragnar wrote:
"Bob Urz" wrote in message
...

Now, if you emptied the harbor of capital ships for a strike force the
Japanese spies would have relayed the information back and the jap fleet
may have turned back. Or set up for attack.

Umm, then how come the Japanese spies didn't tell the fleet that the
carriers were gone? As far as I know, right up to when the Japanese were
over Oahu they thought the carriers were there.

It's been said that the target ship USS Utah (former BB with turrets
removed and railroad ties lining the upper deck for extra protection
from practice projectiles) may have been mistaken for a carrier.

The Japanese certainly paid it the attention due a carrier, anyway.

If the fleet had been in the open sea the Japanese would have been even
more eager to attack. Less likely that we'd be able to salvage sunken
ships. (Nagumo had hoped to catch the fleet at the training anchorage
near Lahaina - nice, deep water there.)

The Japanese spies were pretty slow to get information out - I seem to
recall reading that the most up-to-date information they had at the time
the attack was launched was a week old.
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

On Mon, 31 May 2004 12:01:02 -0400, (Peter Stickney) wrote:

In article ,
Alan Minyard writes:
On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:36:23 -0400, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:


"Bob Urz" wrote in message
...
I know similar scenarios were made into a movie.
But, if on Dec 1941 you had two strike eagles.
Only two. Your sortie arrived at the Japanese fleet
about the time 1/2 of the first wave was launched.

Question 1#
given the choice of any weaponry available for the F15,
(even some that may not be normally used)
what would your weapon load be? This is using all available hard points
and taking fuel out of the equation.

Question #2
Given the choice of weapons above, what would your tactics be to
maximize damage to the carrier fleet and prevent as many planes
as possible from reaching Pearl. (while saving your own butt)

Now there would have to be a balance between destroying the carriers
from future use and destroying the attacking planes that have already
left the carrier. Have it it. Hang as much on the plane as you can.
But when your out of munitions, what other tactics could you use?

Bob

I carry 4x cluster bombs per aircraft (just in case I miss with one or two),
and all the sidewinders and 20mm the F-15 will haul. I'm hitting the
carriers with cluster bombs, which ought to do a number on any aircraft and
people on deck. The secondaries from the Japanese munitions will finish the
job on the carriers. Once the carriers are lit up like the 4th of July, I
take out bombers and torpedo planes until I exhaust my supply of
sidewinders. Following that, I go plinking with 20 mm. I don't waste my
time shooting up Zero's unless there is nothing else to shoot at.

KB

AIM 9s at recips?? I doubt if you would ever get a tone.

They do, and quite nicely. Recip exhaust gas is very hot. Teh
volume's lower, but that doesn't really matter - a Sidewinder's seeker
is looking at temperature, not volume.
Remember - the seekers these days are able to see the aerodynamic
heating on the leading edges of a subsonic airplane - that's not very
much.

Thanks, I have had no experience with the Winder. That is indeed an
amazing capability.

Al Minyard

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:04:51 +0100, "Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Paul F Austin
writes
500 pound bombs aren't ship killers for ships that size. 2000 pound bombs
may be. After thinking about it, a hard target penetrator fuzed to go off
after exiting below the keel may be the most lethal way of attacking large
ships. The explosive fill makes a torpedo look small and there's a fair
chance of breaking the ship's back.

21" torpedo warheads ran around ~800lb of Torpex at the time (UK Mark
VIII - 640lb Torpex for the US Mark 14), which sounds competitive for
BLU-109/B (if a bit smaller than Mark 84)

That said, if you could get an under-keel detonation with any of those,
it will *hurt* a ship of that era.

One hit from a US Sub blew the Taiho sky high. The Japanese were
notorious for filling their ships with avgas fumes.

Al Minyard