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Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological achievements)
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:14:42 UTC, Col. RJ wrote:
On 20 Dec 2003 23:32:03 -0800, (cave fish) First off, **** Japan, they started it, we finished it. Second, Arm chair quarter backing the leaders back then is as stupid today as saying some running back should have done a run different last sunday. I believe that the Japs were well served by dropping nukes. They were given the chance to surrender and refused. Wanting instead to force us to invade, where I will bet hundreds of thousands if not a million or more would have died. (People like you would today be whining about why we didn't use nukes to save that carnage). After the first nuke we again asked the Japs to surrender and they refused. If not for the Emperor, they also didn't want to surrender after the second Tojo was prepared to obliterate the whole country before giving up. AS for the civilian cassualties, the Japs themselves didn't care about civilians in other countries. Nor obviously did they care about their own since the militerists were prepared to sacrifice them all for their pride. Yet now 60 years later you expect us to feel bad and all. Not gonna happen from anyone with a smidgen of sanity and an IQ over 65. Indeed, imagine we invaded instead of nuked. Incredible causalties all round, guerilla warfare, street by street fighting. Then the American populace finds out we had a weapon that could have ended it all in days. Boom! LT |
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3. This all B-17's and B-24's kill more people in Hamburg, Norymberga and
others Germany cities Don't forget the RAF Lancasters and Mosquitoes, which put on the night firebombing raids, the which did more damage to German cities. Cite concerning Mosquitos firebombing, please. Placing the Mosquito among the four area bombers mentioned (five, counting the Enola Gay herself) is the same as including a scalpel among a box of cleavers. They didn't bomb cities, they attacked addresses. I do place a distinction between weapons designed or employed to "dehouse" or, more bluntly, depopulate an area from the rare aircraft with the Mosquitos ability to strike the exact spot of the enemy infection. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send those old photos to a reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone. |
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In article ,
Dave Smith wrote: American leadership in WW II? That is where we differ. England and its Commonwealth Allies were fighting in Europe Because they'd been pushed to the wall and couldn't put it off any longer, once Poland was attacked. The U.S. was limited, then, to providing logistical support (Lend Lease), some convoy support (USS Reuben James), and trying desperately to build up its military forces to something resembling a useful level. At the beginning of 1940, the U.S. military ranked around 16th, behind Polands. and in SE Asia long before the US finally got involved. Try again. Japan's attack on the Malay peninsula got the Commonwealth involved in fighting in SE Asia. On December 7, 1941, the Japanese Army began arriving at Kota Bharu. This was just a diversionary force and the main landings in the Malay peninsula did not take place until the next day, December 8, at Singora and Patani on the north-east coast. A diversion one day before Pearl Harbor (the two locales being on different sides of the IDL), the main initial attack on the same day. I suppose some might call one day "long before". It's weak enough to be countered by noting that a U.S.N. gunboat, the Panay, had already been attacked by Japanese forces in China, in 1937. Both would be similarly silly claims. |
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Without PGMs they were just chucking them out like everyone else. They may have been assigned different targets, but their "accuracy" was as non-existant as any other level bomber of the era. From 30K perhaps, but down in the weeds, Mosquitos sent their bombs through doorways and into specifica areas of buildings that they were attacking. No B-17 or Lanc could ever claim that. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send those old photos to a reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone. |
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You've never learned about MOUTs or talked to anyone who has. Also, the typical reponse of most military units to millions of people with bamboo spears is millions of bullets and lots of CAS using napalm and HE. You don't save a lot of lives, especially when the second tactic in such battles is the following: See a village. Hmmmmm could there be bad guys in there? Call in A-20's and napalm the living hell out of it. (or WP, as Napalm was a later innovation). Watch screaming human torches run around a lot, thrash, fall down and cease moving. Move in, grenade all potential hidey holes, etc. Move to next village, rinse and repeat. you do not play fair, and in truth, if the Japanese had been as detirmined as they seemed, my tactic of preference would be mustard or other war agents, as people with bamboo spears and no CBW gear don't do well when their lungs turn to mush. And as for the pride argument-- you bring up the Confederates...well guess what, they never felt they lost, and that's a part of the reason for some of our bad history-- they weren't made to feel in their bones that they lost. That was the difference in WWII. We crushed them utterly. Burned their cities, smashed their harbors, left theiir ships on the bottem of the ocean, steamed up and down their coast with BB shelling at will, and than burned their cities to ash around them. There was no pride, we had crushed it out of them. At the end of the day, WE permitted the emperor to remain, and every Japanese knew it. We could have just as easily killed him, and used some bullets to deal with the riots. They were completely helpless, and every bit of "we would have won except for a stab in the back" was stomped out of them. THAT is how you win a war. AND you get to hear the lamentations of their women. |
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