Fuel Prices and their Effect on Your Flying

On 2006-05-03, Newps wrote:
I have the S model also. At 13 gph you are at 65% which gives me an
indicated airspeed of 173-175 MPH and a TAS of 186-189 MPH at 6000.
Yours was maybe a little slow.

I think the exact numbers I saw in the plane were 163 KTAS at 8000',
which multiplied by 1.15 is 187 mph TAS. It was good to be able to make
a reasonable distance in a single hop (a fuel stop when IFR usually
added another 45 minutes). The 182 we had in the club had the small fuel
tanks - so for many trips I could do them faster and cheaper (the Bo had a
higher hourly rate, but the speed made up) by a worthwhile margin in the
Bonanza.

Not to want to gush over the Bo, but I think it's probably one of the
best in its class - real pilots plane, flies really nicely with just
fingertip inputs. It's stable IFR (I found it easier to hand fly than an
Arrow). Other nice touches like no trim change when you put the flaps
down are just icing on the cake. Oh, and landing gear that worked well
for bumpy unpaved runways.

Pity about the lousy ergonomics though, but a lot of planes were like
that in the 1960s!

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

: It's safer, easier, and your fuel is filtered properly.

I can't argue with the easier and possibly not safer. I have rigged a spin-on
water-separating fuel filter to act as the pour nozzle of my 5-gallon cans. It keeps
the crud and water out and I just need to move the nozzle from can to can as I fill.
Mildly annoying, but just as effective.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Roger wrote:
: Try again. At $115 to $125 and hour I'm looking at roughly half an
: hour total round trip counting taxi time at both airports. That works
: out to about $55 to $62.50 minus $30 still costs me $25 to $35 over
: the gas savings.
: So instead of saving a dollar a gallon I'm spending an extra dollar a
: gallon. IE, it costs me $2 a gallon to save a dollar a gallon.

OK... I thought you were talking about diverting an additional 20 miles to get
fuel on a trip... not making a special trip somewhere for fuel.

: There's a lot more to the cost of flying than gas.
: Now if I'm coming back from a trip in that direction it makes sense to
: top off before coming the rest of the way home.

That's what I was thinking.

As far as the cost of flying, I know everyone justifies it in different ways.
As far as our partnership goes, we are pretty loose, and don't charge an hourly rate.
My own (personal) justification is that the only expense I care about is direct
operating (fuel, oil, and operating fees like tiedowns elsewhere, etc). All the rest
are fixed and become *smaller* the more it is flown... and it's already split 3 ways.
Kind of a justification for flying more hours.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Jay Honeck wrote:
Do your local fields allow fuel cans to be stored on the property? Both
of the places where I've had tie-downs forbade it.


Build one of these: http://alexisparkinn.com/fuel_truck.htm and save
yourself many, MANY thousands of dollars.

It's safer, easier, and your fuel is filtered properly.

Hey, Jay,

I admire your ingenuity in implementing "The Grape".

I was just thinking about all the rules / precautions that are taken at my
airport with fuel trucks. They have a special parking area away from everything
else, and they are returned to that parking area after every fueling. It's so
far away that the line crew has to take a golf cart to go get the truck. They
return the truck to its special spot even if they anticipate they'll be using it
again in a very few minutes. I'm sure all this is not just FBO policy, it must
be regulated in some way.

So, finally coming to my point, I wonder whether you take any similar
precautions with the grape, whether you carry insurance on it, whether the
insurer has put any limitations or special provisions on you.

Just curious.

Dave

So, finally coming to my point, I wonder whether you take any similar
precautions with the grape, whether you carry insurance on it, whether the
insurer has put any limitations or special provisions on you.

First, you must remember where I live. Although Iowa City is a very
urban, cosmopolitan kind of place (thanks to the University of Iowa),
we are surrounded by thousands of square miles of farmland. Every few
miles, there is a farmer. He owns a pickup truck which, invariably,
has a fuel transfer tank in the back -- just like the Mighty Grapes --
and he comes into town to shop, once in a while.

Every building contractor in the area has one, too.

In short, it's not unusual to see trucks around town that look just
like the Grape (although most aren't purple, and most are big ol'
American pickem-up trucks, not dinky little Nissans), so no one is
excited or surprised to see me.

Now, if I still lived in the Milwaukee/Racine/Kenosha/Chicago
metroplex, things might be a bit different. But around here, there
are no special restrictions or requirements to haul gas around. Your
mileage may vary.

In the summer, when we pull the Mustang out of the hangar after a long
winter's nap, we park the Grape at the hotel, and usually only use it
to drive the 400 yards or so to our hangar each time we fly. We also
use it to fuel our lawn tractor, mowers, etc., and to haul stuff to the
dump once in a while. In the winter we drive it to/from from the hotel
every day, just like a regular car. (It's actually an wonderful little
truck. Nissan really got it right, back in '95.)

We even park it in the garage at our home, which freaked me out for the
first few years. Gradually I came to realize that the fuel transfer
tank was no different than any of my other vehicle's fuel tanks, and
relaxed about it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

: It's safer, easier, and your fuel is filtered properly.

I can't argue with the easier and possibly not safer. I have rigged a spin-on
water-separating fuel filter to act as the pour nozzle of my 5-gallon cans. It keeps
the crud and water out and I just need to move the nozzle from can to can as I fill.
Mildly annoying, but just as effective.

We did the same thing, Cory, before building the Grape. Lifting 36
pound containers up onto the wing (and suspending them in mid-air, so
as not to scratch the paint) was never fun. And I was always paranoid
about the static electricity build-up, due to the plastic containers.
At any moment I figured I was going to self-immolate.

And, of course, you've got your face uncomfortably close to the fumes,
which can't be very good for a person. And I always seemed to spill
some.

The Grape, on the other hand, can be safely grounded, and I can pump
gas out faster than I can pump it in at the gas station. It's quick,
easy, portable, paid for, and we've now run almost 7,000 gallons
through it, at a savings (after the cost of the truck and tank) of over
$4800...and counting.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

: Now, if I still lived in the Milwaukee/Racine/Kenosha/Chicago
: metroplex, things might be a bit different. But around here, there
: are no special restrictions or requirements to haul gas around. Your
: mileage may vary.

I'm in the "sticks" of southwest Virginia, but our new and improved airport
manager nearly swallowed his tongue when I first busted out my gas cans to fill my
plane. That was another reason I never expanded to build a fuel trailer/truck. I'm
sure that if I were to build a dedicated fuel trailer he could refuse parking on the
premises, and require DOT certification. I basically had to throw the relevant AC's
at him to clarify that it was *ILLEAGAL* for him to forbid me to self-fuel.

As long as it's in "normal" cans, it's still casual, non-bulk operation. It
certainly would be nice to have larger quantites, but around here it's certainly not
politically acceptable. So long as the cans have a filter on them to keep the fuel
clean, it's OK by me.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:



As long as it's in "normal" cans, it's still casual, non-bulk operation. It
certainly would be nice to have larger quantites, but around here it's certainly not
politically acceptable. So long as the cans have a filter on them to keep the fuel
clean, it's OK by me.

He cannot stop you from refuelling your own plane, even if that means
you want to pull a semi trailer onto the airport. He can enforce
reasonable safety rules, such as no fuelling in the hangar, don't block
busy taxiways, remain a certain distance from other hangars, must have a
fire extinguisher, etc. I've long had a 100 gallon tank from Tractor
Supply to refuel. It is currently mounted on a small 4x8 trailer.

Newps wrote:
: As long as it's in "normal" cans, it's still casual, non-bulk operation. It
: certainly would be nice to have larger quantites, but around here it's certainly not
: politically acceptable. So long as the cans have a filter on them to keep the fuel
: clean, it's OK by me.

: He cannot stop you from refuelling your own plane, even if that means
: you want to pull a semi trailer onto the airport. He can enforce
: reasonable safety rules, such as no fuelling in the hangar, don't block
: busy taxiways, remain a certain distance from other hangars, must have a
: fire extinguisher, etc. I've long had a 100 gallon tank from Tractor
: Supply to refuel. It is currently mounted on a small 4x8 trailer.

That's what I had to explain to him... that he cannot stop me from refuelling
my plane. I'm pretty sure that a 100 gallon tank would have to have some DOT-approved
work to make it legal for transportation on the road. I don't know what the magic
capacity limits, but obviously a semi trailer and a 5 gallon can in the trunk are
subject to different rules.

Most places don't actively enforce such rules (farmers/construction workers
with bulk tanks mounted in the pickup beds, etc). If someone wanted to get nasty
however, they could enforce it. Most of the times (reasonable) people just look the
other way.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:



That's what I had to explain to him... that he cannot stop me from refuelling
my plane. I'm pretty sure that a 100 gallon tank would have to have some DOT-approved
work to make it legal for transportation on the road. I don't know what the magic
capacity limits, but obviously a semi trailer and a 5 gallon can in the trunk are
subject to different rules.

I've been told by one of my county commissioners who is also a partner
on a 12,000 gallon self serve outfit at an airport near here as well as
being a pilot that you have to be over 300 gallons before you have DOT
problems. Like a lot of rural areas 100-150 gallon in-bed fuel tanks
are everywhere here. I put mine on a trailer as I didn't like the smell
in the garage and I needed the space in the bed for other things.