Rumsfeld's on Bravery

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..

Saddam was an assassin in his youth, which presumably took osme
courage.


Why do you presume that assassination requires some courage?

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:07:33 GMT, Kevin Brooks wrote:

"phil hunt" wrote in message
...
Saddam was an assassin in his youth, which presumably took osme
courage. What's the bravest thing Rumsfeld has personally done?

He flew jets onto and off of carriers at one time

Anywhere near a war zone?

IIRC his service was just after the Korean Conflict. That said, it takes a
decent pair to land a high performance aircraft on a pitching and rolling
deck IMO.


--have you done that?

Nope. The only thing I've ever flown is a glider.

So you are somewhere beneath Rumsfeld then on this mythical
totem-pole-of-courage?

I've no idea whether I am or not. I've never claimed to be
courageous, BTW, and in any case it is irrelevant to the quewstion
of whether Saddam or Rumsfeld is more courageous.

And
FYI, being an assassin does not necessarily take a lot of guts

I suspect it probably does, in that it does seem to be a rather
dangerous activity, if one gets caught.

Gee, you could say the same thing about the guy who specializes in snatching
purses from little old ladies in the shopping mall parking lot--but I still
don't consider that to be an example of bravery.

Well, then, you'll have to define bravery.

I was using it to mean deliberately taking an action that knowingly
places oneself at a risk of death or serious injury.

By that criterion, I guess I'm not a particularly brave person; for
example, I've never done anything that I thought was reasonably
likely to kill me.

How brave are you, by that criterion?

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:35:31 GMT, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"phil hunt" wrote in message
...

Saddam was an assassin in his youth, which presumably took osme
courage.

Why do you presume that assassination requires some courage?

Because the assassin is deliberately doing an action that he knows
is likely to increase the probability of his death or serious
injury.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..

Because the assassin is deliberately doing an action that he knows
is likely to increase the probability of his death or serious
injury.

I seem to recollect that Sadam's "assassination" activity was more on the
lines of the thug killing rivals for his boss. In most cases that involves
a group thing against an un-armed victim.

A killer, especially of the bullying sort (and that he is) is merely
pathological. Bravery involves much more than a physical act that can have
unpleasant consequences.

The only assassin I ever met fact to face was one I arrested for murder. He
was not brave, only sociopathic.

Don H.

Emmanuel Gustin wrote:


The recent "Geneva accords" prove that it is possible for
moderate Israelis and moderate Palestinians to work out
a fair and workable peace deal. What is patently missing
is some way to force the radicals (in Gaza, in Jerusalem,
in Washington, in Damascus) to accept such a deal.

Just FYI - the number of radicals in Washington
has been slowly but steadily declining since
1992 or '94. Their numbers should be further
reduced after the 2004 elections here.

Kevin Brooks wrote:


One of the TV networks here reported this evening that he came darned close
to meeting his end in that spiderhole. According to the report, the special
operator on the open end was getting ready to chuck a grenade in the hole
when Saddam stuck his hands up and said, in english no less, "I am Saddam
Hussein. I am the President of Iraq. I want to negotiate." It appears he was
willing to fight to the death...the death of his last misguided follower,
that is. All of his past promises to go down fighting evaporated when it
came time to place himself in the suicidal situation he had sent so many
others into with such gusto and false bravado. Miserable ******* indeed.

It's actually a lucky thing he did.
Had he not, the grenade goes down the hole, and
no one would go down to see whose blood and brains
were painting the walls afterward.

Then we'd be in the same situation as we are with
Osama: dead somewhere, and unidentified.

"Dweezil Dwarftosser" wrote in message
...
Kevin Brooks wrote:


One of the TV networks here reported this evening that he came darned
close
to meeting his end in that spiderhole. According to the report, the
special
operator on the open end was getting ready to chuck a grenade in the
hole
when Saddam stuck his hands up and said, in english no less, "I am
Saddam
Hussein. I am the President of Iraq. I want to negotiate." It appears he
was
willing to fight to the death...the death of his last misguided
follower,
that is. All of his past promises to go down fighting evaporated when it
came time to place himself in the suicidal situation he had sent so many
others into with such gusto and false bravado. Miserable ******* indeed.

It's actually a lucky thing he did.
Had he not, the grenade goes down the hole, and
no one would go down to see whose blood and brains
were painting the walls afterward.

Then we'd be in the same situation as we are with
Osama: dead somewhere, and unidentified.

Even if they had, I think they would have collected a few scraps of Saddam
flesh and DNA tested them.

Interesting to see him pleading for his life, I wonder if he offered the
troops any of the $750K in cash he had with him to let him go?

- Michael

"Dweezil Dwarftosser" wrote in message
...
Kevin Brooks wrote:


One of the TV networks here reported this evening that he came darned
close
to meeting his end in that spiderhole. According to the report, the
special
operator on the open end was getting ready to chuck a grenade in the
hole
when Saddam stuck his hands up and said, in english no less, "I am
Saddam
Hussein. I am the President of Iraq. I want to negotiate." It appears he
was
willing to fight to the death...the death of his last misguided
follower,
that is. All of his past promises to go down fighting evaporated when it
came time to place himself in the suicidal situation he had sent so many
others into with such gusto and false bravado. Miserable ******* indeed.

It's actually a lucky thing he did.
Had he not, the grenade goes down the hole, and
no one would go down to see whose blood and brains
were painting the walls afterward.


DNA would have provided evidence to ID him
but I'll agree that having him shown live on
TV looking rather bedraggled and meek was better.

Keith

Then we'd be in the same situation as we are with
Osama: dead somewhere, and unidentified.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote

IIRC his service was just after the Korean Conflict. That said, it takes a
decent pair to land a high performance aircraft on a pitching and rolling
deck IMO.

Women don't have testicles, and they operate off of carriers.

Rumsfeld's bravery instinct made sure he was in the Reserves during Vietnam,
and he never even went there TDY for a day, not even as a Congressman.

Very brave.

What's amazing is that some in the Arab world are amazed he surrendered.
They must have really bought his line of BS.
Curt

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
(B2431) wrote:

--

Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers, promised to go down fighting
and
called on others to fight to the very end. He caved. If he was really
smart he
would have made the U.S. soldiers kill him thereby making him a martyr.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Does anyone really think that he gives a flying **** about his
country or countrymen?. After he killed how many hundreds of
them?...and of course it would have helped his cause if he had
become a martyr. It's only too bad that all the suicide bombers
couldn't see him for what he is...a muddy dirty rodent hiding in
a rathole...nust make the families of those poor deluded bombers
quite proud to see who their precious children were revering and
laying their lives down for. Miserable *******.

-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"