Another Cirrus crash

John,

Honestly it's just
about like any other plane to fly, it has its idiosyncracies but
they're no big deal.


Just like the Bo back when it got its doctor killer reputation.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Guy,

I am concerned though about the incidents I've been hearing about all of the
systems failing simultaneously.


So you're another clarivoyant that's better than any NTSB team?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Dan Luke opined

"FUji" wrote:
I find the side stick gives you a very detached and
somewhat helpless feeling. Like enjoying the ride
is more important than the actual flying.

I know exactly what you mean. I flew a Lancair Super ES and absolutely
hated it. It felt like sitting in a Barcalounger playing Nintendo.

Maybe it's just prejudice from habituation, but as far as I'm concerned,
side sticks suck. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I got to try one in
an F-16!

One nice thing about wheels and centered sticks is that you can change hands
from time to time, or even use two hands if desired.



-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

Tom Sixkiller ) wrote:

At least in an F-16, the control stick (IIUC) is in the RIGHT hand, which is
the one with dexterity (for a northpaw).

Speak for yourself, RIGHTY! ;-)

Actually, a left side stick for a left-handed person is problematic,
especially when ATC calls and says, "Aircraft XYZ, reroute to your
clearance, advice when ready to copy."

--
Peter

I sat in one to see how it "felt" and decided it was not for me and that was
one of the reasons.


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Tom Sixkiller ) wrote:

At least in an F-16, the control stick (IIUC) is in the RIGHT hand,
which is
the one with dexterity (for a northpaw).

Speak for yourself, RIGHTY! ;-)

Actually, a left side stick for a left-handed person is problematic,
especially when ATC calls and says, "Aircraft XYZ, reroute to your
clearance, advice when ready to copy."

--
Peter

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:59:13 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"FUji" wrote:
I find the side stick gives you a very detached and
somewhat helpless feeling. Like enjoying the ride
is more important than the actual flying.

I know exactly what you mean. I flew a Lancair Super ES and absolutely
hated it. It felt like sitting in a Barcalounger playing Nintendo.

Maybe it's just prejudice from habituation, but as far as I'm concerned,
side sticks suck. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I got to try one in
an F-16!

At least in an F-16, the control stick (IIUC) is in the RIGHT hand, which is

As I recall the F-16 has a "joy stick" like the joystick for a game
controller. Those work fine. I flew a Cozy with one and liked it.
I do not like the so called side stick which pushes and pulls like a
yoke. They feel un-natural and clumsy to me.

the one with dexterity (for a northpaw). Yes, with a regular yoke you use
the left hand with right hand for the throttle, but then you're using the
entire arm. (Try putting golf balls with just hands...it doesn't
work...that's why you use still hands and control with the larger arm

You don't have that problem with the pivoted joystick. OTOH, I think
I'd have a devil of a time using a left mounted joystick.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

muscles.)

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:59:13 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:

At least in an F-16, the control stick (IIUC) is in the RIGHT hand, which
is

As I recall the F-16 has a "joy stick" like the joystick for a game
controller. Those work fine. I flew a Cozy with one and liked it.
I do not like the so called side stick which pushes and pulls like a
yoke. They feel un-natural and clumsy to me.
the one with dexterity (for a northpaw). Yes, with a regular yoke you use
the left hand with right hand for the throttle, but then you're using the
entire arm. (Try putting golf balls with just hands...it doesn't
work...that's why you use still hands and control with the larger arm

You don't have that problem with the pivoted joystick. OTOH, I think
I'd have a devil of a time using a left mounted joystick.

Exactly. You're _fine dexterity_ is in the other hand.

I once sat in a English/Right hand drive car with stick shift and just
couldn't get the hang of shifting with the left hand without missing
gears...

Maybe it has something to do with the angle of your arm/hand when it's off
to the side??

It's all well, but you've gotta fly one first, then decide if it's for
you. I was also pretty excited about Cirrus, until I got a ride in an
SR-20 last year. On the ground, you sit like a king: the ergonomics,
view and comfort are terrific, but in the air the plane is very
slippery and feels like it's skating on ice, only in three dimensions.
It was pretty much impossible to trim it off for a hands-off flight,
without the a/p. I found the beast almost too squirelly to control,
and the side stick was indeed giving that disconnected feeling. Like
the others been saying, I couldn't wait till we landed. The whole
experience was hinting that I might lack some piloting skills, but one
trip in a Cherokee put things back in place.

Bottom line, I'd take Arrow or even Warrior any time over Cirrus.
Piper's ride is solid and predictable, and you can relax and enjoy the
ride, while Cirrus is too slippery and manually flying one demands
constant control inputs to the point that it wears you out very soon.
I have suspicion this may be true for most metal vs. composite
aircraft.

-Toly.


Someone mentioned they hate the plane... I have yet to fly in one, but I
know it certainly offers everything I could hope to want in a small general
aviation plane (except for the bathroom for my wife!) It's roomy,
redundant, and fast. I really like the idea of the side stick... that must
make dealing with charts soooooo much easier with all the space freed up in
front of you. Not to mention more room for the three course meal mid-flight.

In article , Tom Sixkiller wrote:
You don't have that problem with the pivoted joystick. OTOH, I think
I'd have a devil of a time using a left mounted joystick.

Exactly. You're _fine dexterity_ is in the other hand.

I've found it doesn't matter. In a plane with a yoke, I fly with my left
hand. In a plane with a stick, I fly with my right. Except for the
Auster, which I fly with the stick in the left hand because it's side by
side seating and the throttle's in the middle. I'm right handed.

I once sat in a English/Right hand drive car with stick shift and just
couldn't get the hang of shifting with the left hand without missing
gears...

Never given me a problem with either hand drive car, except perhaps
occasionally trying to change gear with the door handle immediately
after getting in whichever type I've not driven in a while.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

I once sat in a English/Right hand drive car with stick shift and just
couldn't get the hang of shifting with the left hand without missing
gears...

Maybe it has something to do with the angle of your arm/hand when it's off
to the side??

It's nothing to do with hand dominance; it's just a matter of practice. And
the motor skills stay; I'm equally comfortable with a stick shift of either
polarity, although for the first few hours you start reaching down with the
wrong hand.

Yes, the pedals are fortunately in the same order.

-- David Brooks