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#11
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Probably true - I seem to recall reading about a severe shortage of
pickle barrels in Britain from 1942 until the end of the war... You mean Jerry was able to put 50 percent of his bombs within a thousand feet of the barrels? vince norris |
#12
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Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
Reading what appears to be a solid history of FDR and espionage. Author makes the flat statement that in 1940 someone in the Norden plant smuggled out the plans, which went to Germany. From these, the Germans "developed their own bombsight," presumably based on the Norden. The author points out the irony that at this point we still wouldn't give Britain the bombsight (we did later). Sounds like ****. If there was spying (I believe there was) it was not to produce direct copies but to learn of the sites tactical capabilities. Pretty much standard fair to try and keep abreast of the other guys abillity. From 1942 the Germans had the computing wind correcting Lotfe 7 bombsight in general use. It produced a great improvement in accuracy and the German taste for dive bombing began to wane. It was evaluated by the RAF and the report on its accuracy suggested that it even be copied for use by the RAF. There is no doubt that the germans were quite capable of producing optics, gyroscopes, servo motors, gears and ball integrators. Any truth to this? What part if any of the Norden sight did the Germans utilize? None of it. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org |
#13
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In article , vincent p.
norris writes Probably true - I seem to recall reading about a severe shortage of pickle barrels in Britain from 1942 until the end of the war... You mean Jerry was able to put 50 percent of his bombs within a thousand feet of the barrels? vince norris Yes indeed. I seem to remember that MI6 got wind of the German coup and commandeered every pickle barrel south of Hadrian's wall. Numbers of these were then placed a calculated distance away from important air bases, and when the German bombers released their load over the airfields, the bombs would unaccountably veer off in the direction of the pile of barrels. Major reason for the development of the V1 and the V2, I believe... Cheers, Dave -- Dave Eadsforth |
#14
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In article , Dave Eadsforth
writes In article , vincent p. norris writes Probably true - I seem to recall reading about a severe shortage of pickle barrels in Britain from 1942 until the end of the war... You mean Jerry was able to put 50 percent of his bombs within a thousand feet of the barrels? vince norris Yes indeed. I seem to remember that MI6 got wind of the German coup and commandeered every pickle barrel south of Hadrian's wall. Numbers of these were then placed a calculated distance away from important air bases, and when the German bombers released their load over the airfields, the bombs would unaccountably veer off in the direction of the pile of barrels. Major reason for the development of the V1 and the V2, I believe... Cheers, Dave Does anybody know where these pickle barrels came from? Were they Lend Lease? AFAIK we didn't make pickle barrels in the UK at that time, and I'm not sure if we do now. You can't get the wood, you know (according to Henry Crun). Could there have been some linguistic confusion years ago with the WWI German helmet, the Pickelhaube? Perhaps Billy Mitchell said he wanted to be able to drop a bomb on a Pickelhaube, and was misquoted. -- Peter Ying tong iddle-i po! |
#15
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You mean Jerry was able to put 50 percent of his bombs within a thousand feet of the barrels? It would have been only 33 percent, unless he improved on the design. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org |
#16
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I'd always wondered about them but never really bothered to find out. I think it's like the cost of owning a yacht--if you have to ask, you can't afford one. (Vincent Astor? Whoever.) Many things having to do with aviation are so complex, or perhaps are explained so badly, that my mind goes blank in protest. Bombsights are one of these. I read a book on the Norden and came away no wiser, except to marvel: Gosh, how did anyone ever work that out? all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org |
#17
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For example the Stuvi sights used in Ju-87s and Ju-88s were highly advanced, computerized sights for their day. Did they ever bomb from 25,000 feet? Or perhaps it would be fairer to say 20,000 feet, since that was the USAAC boast involving the pickle barrel. From what I have read of Japanese raids, 13,000 feet (4,000 meters) was the most common bomb-run altitude. I should think that when you increase the altitude by 50 percent (or 100 percent, in the case of the actual B-17 raids over Germany) you increase the difficulty many times over. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org |
#18
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"Cub Driver" wrote in message news I'd always wondered about them but never really bothered to find out. I think it's like the cost of owning a yacht--if you have to ask, you can't afford one. (Vincent Astor? Whoever.) Many things having to do with aviation are so complex, or perhaps are explained so badly, that my mind goes blank in protest. Bombsights are one of these. I read a book on the Norden and came away no wiser, except to marvel: Gosh, how did anyone ever work that out? Oh yes, I'm with you on that. Sadly I know that - 'Er... what the hell...?!' - feeling all too well. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org |
#19
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In article , Peter Twydell
writes In article , Dave Eadsforth writes In article , vincent p. norris writes Probably true - I seem to recall reading about a severe shortage of pickle barrels in Britain from 1942 until the end of the war... You mean Jerry was able to put 50 percent of his bombs within a thousand feet of the barrels? vince norris Yes indeed. I seem to remember that MI6 got wind of the German coup and commandeered every pickle barrel south of Hadrian's wall. Numbers of these were then placed a calculated distance away from important air bases, and when the German bombers released their load over the airfields, the bombs would unaccountably veer off in the direction of the pile of barrels. Major reason for the development of the V1 and the V2, I believe... Cheers, Dave Does anybody know where these pickle barrels came from? Were they Lend Lease? AFAIK we didn't make pickle barrels in the UK at that time, We did, but it was a well-kept secret. If the Germans had got to know even which towns had factories, the factories would have been bombed - very accurately... and I'm not sure if we do now. You can't get the wood, you know (according to Henry Crun). Could there have been some linguistic confusion years ago with the WWI German helmet, the Pickelhaube? Perhaps Billy Mitchell said he wanted to be able to drop a bomb on a Pickelhaube, and was misquoted. Possibly misheard - if he happened to be munching a gherkin at the time... Cheers, Dave -- Dave Eadsforth |
#20
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Does anybody know where these pickle barrels came from? Were they Lend Lease? AFAIK we didn't make pickle barrels in the UK at that time, and I'm not sure if we do now. You can't get the wood, you know Of course, the Mosquito figured into all of this. Pickle barrels had been coopered in the UK for many dozens of years in the run up to the "disagreement among cousins" (as Goebbels described the conflict between Britain and Germany). During that rather spirited disagreement, the de Havilland company created the aerial equivelent of a grand piano in its DH 98, and this new wooden wonder required every barrel shaper, clog carver, and cabinet finisher in the realm to bend their oars in production of the Mosquito. But what of the pickle barrel? Production in the UK ceased abruptly with the first order to DH - an immediate vaccum was created, a wartime critical shortage in pickle barrels. Just another damned inconvenience of the war. Even with the required coupons, there was simply no guarantee a proper pickle barrel could be found. Well, you all are familiar with the story by now. While touring the great pickel barrel factories that once lined the Mississippi, Japanese future-Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto could only marvel at America's pickle barrel production capability. "We're doomed", he muttered. (In Japanese, of course.) Later he was able to use his acquired knowledge - one captured JN 25 message, decoded in the days prior to Pearl Harbor, included the exact locations of each of the pickle barrels on board the Oklahoma and the Arizona - only luck and a Seaman named Mojo Nixon kept the Nevada from suffering a similar fate; he is widely credited with having moved the Nevada's pickle barrel to the dock alongside the battleship, so he could polish it on the early morning of December 7th, 19 Fo-tee-won. Tragically... well.. you know. All of this is pickle barrel history, known by most school children. The mystery of the English wartime pickle barrels is solved by checking the makers mark on the bottom of one of the few wartime survivors - on the Imperial War Museum's pickle barrel, "Old Smellysides", all of the coopers signed their names as it was the 5,000th pickle barrel to roll off the production line at the Cape Girardeau plant. That makers mark, faded by decades of service and overpolishing, is clearly the mark of Henry Ford. Perhaps most famous for his innovation in pickle barrel production, he earned the nickname 'the American Coopernicus'. Yes, of course they were lend-lease. What a ridiculous thing to say. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR An LZ is a place you want to land, not stay. |
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