2 aircraft cleared onto the same runway at the same time

"Dave Stadt" wrote

You must never have left at high volume departure times. They will get at
least 6 lined up on 18 right, 2 wide and three deep. There will also be
departures on 18 left.

I have been out there during "the push". I don't recall more than 2 wide
and one deep, with one just breaking ground. I guess that could be due to
the difference in individual controller's preferences, also. It could be
CRS, too! g
--
Jim in NC

Montblack wrote:
("Newps" wrote)

My thought exactly. Perhaps the tower controller was getting prepped
for this year :-)


Not likely as he's not eligible for OSH.



Who is? What are the requirements?

Anybody from the Great Lakes region and checked out at your facility.

Mitty wrote:




IFR or VFR is not relavant.


Separation requirements make the crowding-onto-the-runway exercise
unnecessary if both flights are IFR, as the local controller would have
plenty of time to taxi the second IFR guy onto the runway before the
second flight could be released anyway.

You need 3000 feet between two single engine aircraft for your runway
separation and then 15 degrees divergence for your IFR separation.

("Newps" wrote)
Anybody from the Great Lakes region and checked out at your facility.


Thanks.

http://www.agl.faa.gov/publicaffairs...atcfacts1.html
(ATC - Great Lakes Region)


Montblack

Newps wrote:



Roy Smith wrote:




Hi Tom. That's a common trick the tower uses at HPN to get multiple
departures out quicker. I get it every once in a while. I can't say
for sure, but I suspect it's only possible when one of the flights is
VFR.


IFR or VFR is not relavant.

Size is ! turbulence effect should be kepp in mind :-)

Sure it is relevant, until one IFR flight has cleared the part of the
airspace relevant to his departure the second IFR flight cannot be
released for takeoff.

For the same reason a plane holding for IFR release cannot take off
until the IFR arrival he's waiting for has either cancelled IFR or has
landed.

Mike W. wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Roy Smith wrote:




Hi Tom. That's a common trick the tower uses at HPN to get multiple
departures out quicker. I get it every once in a while. I can't say

for

sure, but I suspect it's only possible when one of the flights is VFR.

IFR or VFR is not relavant.


He's right, the controller is not going to issue taxi and hold to a flight
that is going to have to wait 10 minutes to pick up clearance. If they are
ready to go, they are ready to go.

"Robert Chambers" wrote in message
om...

Sure it is relevant, until one IFR flight has cleared the part of the
airspace relevant to his departure the second IFR flight cannot be
released for takeoff.


Yes, but at a controlled field that can occur rather quickly.



For the same reason a plane holding for IFR release cannot take off until
the IFR arrival he's waiting for has either cancelled IFR or has landed.


Not true at a controlled field.

Robert Chambers wrote:
Sure it is relevant, until one IFR flight has cleared the part of the
airspace relevant to his departure the second IFR flight cannot be
released for takeoff.

At a towered airport you are talking runway separation. After the first
plane is 3000 feet down the runway the next one can be launched.



For the same reason a plane holding for IFR release cannot take off
until the IFR arrival he's waiting for has either cancelled IFR or has
landed.

No. The tower can provide visual separation if it doesn't have radar.

It may depend on the field, but if you have an IFR arrival inbound on an
ILS approach, and an IFR departure waiting to take to the skies, the guy
on the ground is not going to be released. At larger airports where
they have more runways or larger distances separating incoming from
outgoing they can squeeze the timing a bit. From my home field (class
D) I know this to be the case.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Robert Chambers" wrote in message
om...

Sure it is relevant, until one IFR flight has cleared the part of the
airspace relevant to his departure the second IFR flight cannot be
released for takeoff.



Yes, but at a controlled field that can occur rather quickly.



For the same reason a plane holding for IFR release cannot take off until
the IFR arrival he's waiting for has either cancelled IFR or has landed.



Not true at a controlled field.

And what happens if the incoming plane goes missed? You're assuming an
awful lot about what the tower guy can and cannot see.

My home field tower doesn't have radar, or a brite scope slaved from the
approach control.

If there's an incoming IFR flight, and you want to go out IFR, you are
not going to be released until the incoming plane either lands or
cancels IFR.

Newps wrote:



Robert Chambers wrote:

Sure it is relevant, until one IFR flight has cleared the part of the
airspace relevant to his departure the second IFR flight cannot be
released for takeoff.


At a towered airport you are talking runway separation. After the first
plane is 3000 feet down the runway the next one can be launched.



For the same reason a plane holding for IFR release cannot take off
until the IFR arrival he's waiting for has either cancelled IFR or has
landed.


No. The tower can provide visual separation if it doesn't have radar.