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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 15th 08, 10:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting, rec.aviation.ifr
[email protected]
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Default Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"

On Jan 15, 3:07*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message

...



I agree it sounds like an error on the part of the controller.


It doesn't just sound like an error, it's definitely an error.

FAA Order 7110.65R Air Traffic Control

Chapter 3. Airport Traffic Control- Terminal


Is there an online source for this? The AIM is online, but it didn't
have an answer to the OP.
  #23  
Old January 15th 08, 10:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"


wrote in message
...

Is there an online source for this? The AIM is online, but it didn't
have an answer to the OP.


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff.../media/ATC.pdf


  #24  
Old January 15th 08, 10:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
John[_13_]
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Default Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"

But there is a requirement to obtain all relevant information for a flight
and I think there is a argument to be made that you should at least be aware
of both vfr and ifr reporting points in close proximity to your intended
landing point. and if you hear a radio report of someone inbound to a
airport that your flying in to and don't know where that point is, it
behooves you to ask .

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Jan 15, 12:24 pm, kontiki wrote:
wrote:

I can't see much sense in demanding that VFR pilots learn about IFR
and buy or download the approach plates so they can understand a radio
message from an IFR flight doing practice in VFR conditions (or when
conditions are VFR at the relevant airport).


If an instructor can't explain to a student (with a simple diagram)
what the fixes are for the common instrument approaches at the airport
they are doing their students a disfavor.



There is no requirement for VFR pilots to visit an airport with an
instructor before they first fly to that airport. Likewise there is no
requirement for VFR pilots to purchase approach plates and enroute
charts for cross country airports.

-Robert


  #26  
Old January 16th 08, 12:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting, rec.aviation.ifr
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Default Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"

"Pilots who wish to conduct instrument approaches should be particularly
alert for other aircraft in the pattern so as to avoid interrupting the
flow of traffic. Position reports on the CTAF should include distance
and direction from the airport, as well as the pilot's intentions upon
completion of the approach."

From section 7 of:http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...visoryCircular...


Well.

I think it boils down to this: a pilot should not depend on other
pilots going beyond what is required of them to be in the air.

A student pilot does not need to know anything about IFR operations to
be in the air. Can you count on him knowing what IFR announcements on
the radio mean? No.

A private pilot does not need to know anything about IFR operations to
be in the air. Can't count on him either.

I appreciate that it's a good idea to learn about IFR, and I am.
However, in my spare time studies of this I haven't read yet about
approach procedures or the radio announcements that describe it. I
wouldn't advise anyone with an IFR rating counting on me understanding
such communications.

The FAA doesn't advise that either.

  #27  
Old January 16th 08, 01:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting, rec.aviation.ifr
Robert M. Gary
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Default Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"

On Jan 15, 12:55*pm, kontiki wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

There is no requirement for VFR pilots to visit an airport with an
instructor before they first fly to that airport. Likewise there is no
requirement for VFR pilots to purchase approach plates and enroute
charts for cross country airports.


Of course there "is no requirement...". No one said anything about
VFR pilots purchasing approach plates and teaching them IFR (perish the
mere thought!). Re-read my post. Where I trained (and where I now teach)
there are constantly people practicing instrument approaches and we
hear calls like "...N1234a is procedure turn inbound ILS23.." or
"N1234a is YUPPY inbound ILS 32..." Most students want to know what
that means. In any case it behooves an instructor to explain.. once
explained the student will no longer be ignorant and will ultimately
be a safer pilot when he's out soloing.


So do you disagree that the IFR pilot was wrong to use language that
other pilots may not understand? The IFR pilot would certainly be
foolish if he relied on all VFR pilots knowing the IFR waypoints and
approach fixes at each airport.

-Robert
  #28  
Old January 16th 08, 02:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr
Ron Lee[_2_]
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Posts: 233
Default Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"

"John" wrote:

But there is a requirement to obtain all relevant information for a flight
and I think there is a argument to be made that you should at least be aware
of both vfr and ifr reporting points in close proximity to your intended
landing point. and if you hear a radio report of someone inbound to a
airport that your flying in to and don't know where that point is, it
behooves you to ask .

Can't agree with you on this. I go to a lot of new airports and I
don't intend to know where every IFR position is.

Ron Lee
  #30  
Old January 16th 08, 02:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
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Default Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"

kontiki wrote in news:wD7jj.2225$7d1.59
@news01.roc.ny:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Yea, we teach (or are suppose to teach) IFR pilots not to do that. Its
not very helpful for the intended purpose (to let everyone know where
you are).

-Robert, CFII


Flight instructors should at least tell their students
about what IFR fixes are and where they are (at that airport).
Its not rocket science and it will help the student in the long run.



I agree with tish poast.


Bertie



 




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