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#21
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Departing IFR at SMO w/ Tower Closed
wrote in message news:nTScf.603$7A.44@fed1read04... I accept that, for sake of discussion. But, once the aircraft enters Class E airspace, and the TRACON sees it on radar, are you telling me that the TRACON does not have absolute control over the aircraft at that point in time? Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Controllers provide ATC services in accordance with the procedures and minima in FAA Order 7110.65. That weighty tome tells them if a published IFR departure procedure is not included in an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the pilot's prerogative. See the note following subparagraph 4-3-2.c.3. http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0403.html#4-3-2 |
#22
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Departing IFR at SMO w/ Tower Closed
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote in message news:nTScf.603$7A.44@fed1read04... I accept that, for sake of discussion. But, once the aircraft enters Class E airspace, and the TRACON sees it on radar, are you telling me that the TRACON does not have absolute control over the aircraft at that point in time? Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Controllers provide ATC services in accordance with the procedures and minima in FAA Order 7110.65. That weighty tome tells them if a published IFR departure procedure is not included in an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the pilot's prerogative. See the note following subparagraph 4-3-2.c.3. http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0403.html#4-3-2 So, let me ask it again: I elect to use the ODP at KSMO because the tower is closed and I am in Class G airspace. I am told to contact SoCal on 123.45. I takeoff flying the ODP and establish radio contact with SoCal. Leaving 700 feet, agl (entering Class E) SoCal just has to sit on their hands and let me do my thing until I complete the ODP even though they can't maintain separation unless they start vectoring me? |
#23
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Departing IFR at SMO w/ Tower Closed
wrote in message news:c_0df.648$7A.600@fed1read04... So, let me ask it again: I elect to use the ODP at KSMO because the tower is closed and I am in Class G airspace. I am told to contact SoCal on 123.45. I takeoff flying the ODP and establish radio contact with SoCal. Leaving 700 feet, agl (entering Class E) SoCal just has to sit on their hands and let me do my thing until I complete the ODP even though they can't maintain separation unless they start vectoring me? Ask the same question, get the same answer. The controller is expected to know that an aircraft departing SMO is entitled to fly the ODP. If there is a loss of separation because the controller issued clearances that allow two aircraft to occupy the same airspace at the same time then the controller has made a separation error. |
#24
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Departing IFR at SMO w/ Tower Closed
Steven, I"ve noticed that ATC is always very interested in which runway
you will use when you call for your release. In fact, I believe my clearances have always included the use of a certain runway (after they first ask me which one I want). Does that assume I won't do a 180 after take off??? -Robert |
#25
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Departing IFR at SMO w/ Tower Closed
Robert M. Gary wrote: I"ve noticed that ATC is always very interested in which runway you will use when you call for your release. In fact, I believe my clearances have always included the use of a certain runway (after they first ask me which one I want). Does that assume I won't do a 180 after take off??? Depends on the airspace. If it's really busy and you pick runway 35 then your clearance will be tailored for that runway and probably wouldn't work off rwy 17 for example. If you tell us a runway that you will use ATC can then issue a clearance that requires the use of that runway. |
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