15 Hour Wonders

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 8:28:43 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Well, there will always be a minimum threshold for everything. The FAA gets to make the decision and the industry must abide by it. Getting the FAA to make changes is like tying to herd cats. I learned what needed to be learned to pass the check ride without ever really "soaring." Soaring generally comes when one has a certificate and goes off in a two seater with an experienced "soaring" pilot.

Walt Connelly

Fortunately, those are just minimums. I teach soaring, and I start teaching soaring pre-solo.

Evan Ludeman / T8

As a pilot who flew hang gliders for 38 years back in the day we learned pretty much by ourselves and got gliders with no experience. After a few flights I hooked up my harness to a buddy and launched him. No one would do that today and I doubt anyone wants to take on that responsibility without the expience and knowledge today. You don’t need rules all the time.

DC

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 05:52:44 -0800, Tango Eight wrote:

Fortunately, those are just minimums. I teach soaring, and I start
teaching soaring pre-solo.

Same is done over he my path to solo is pretty much the norm in my
club except that my first logged flight was an aero-towed launch in an
ASK-21 at Front Royale, VA.

I learnt and was sent solo on a winch and didn't get my solo aero-tow
signoff until after I'd gotten my Silver C.

However, I was being taught how to find and centre thermals (9th flight)
before I was permitted to fly the top half of a winch launch (10th
flight). I flew the whole launch and the landing on my 19th flight with
just under 4.5 hours total time in ASK-21 and G.103 gliders. I was
introduced to the Puchacz on my 20th flight and started learning to plan
circuits on my 24th flight and was sent solo in an ASK-21 on my 80th
flight.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

After solo I flew a total of 20 solo flights, took my commercial add-on
check ride in the morning and was hauling paying passengers in a twin
Lark that afternoon.Â* That was all around the local field and I quickly
got tired of flying for "free" so I bought a Mosquito.

I had a friend who also had a Mosquito and he dragged me along on my
first cross country flight.Â* I never looked back after that.Â* My check
ride consisted of aero tow, stalls, slow flight, and normal and
emergency landings.Â* Soaring?Â* What was that?

On 12/11/2019 6:28 AM, wrote:
Well, there will always be a minimum threshold for everything. The FAA gets to make the decision and the industry must abide by it. Getting the FAA to make changes is like tying to herd cats. I learned what needed to be learned to pass the check ride without ever really "soaring." Soaring generally comes when one has a certificate and goes off in a two seater with an experienced "soaring" pilot.

Walt Connelly




--
Dan, 5J

I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that those 15 hours are not
/_total_/ time, but glider time.Â* You won't find any CFI of any sort
with 15 hours of total time.Â* In my case I already had thousands of
hours and decades of experience before I got my Commercial Glider add
on.Â* This is just like politics; grab one little detail and blow it all
out of proportion.

On 12/10/2019 9:27 PM, Tony wrote:
You have 15 total but only about 3 hrs PIC. You would first have to do about 150 more flights, turn 18, and pass the commercial test. Then train and pass the cfig test. By then you'd have a lot more experience and be minimally qualified to teach like I was in 2005. I'm looking forward to that day for you Colten

--
Dan, 5J

We should teach students to soar concurrently with gliding and to the best we can. But my take on the licensing bit(in the US) is that it is a glider license and soaring is the sport you use a glider license for. Get the gliding license, sometimes without any demonstration of soaring skill, then go off chase soaring at what ever level you wish to tackle.
Different from the European standards that ties soaring skill and experience in with the rating. Both have pluses and minuses.
For those horrified at the prospect of Airplane CFIs with 15 hour glider instructor add ons, whatever you do don't go look at the minimums for the Sport Pilot Glider Instructor rating. Hint 61.411 lolz
We should have a contest to see which club can make a Sport Pilot Glider Instructor with the least amount of time

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 3:02:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We should teach students to soar concurrently with gliding and to the best we can. But my take on the licensing bit(in the US) is that it is a glider license and soaring is the sport you use a glider license for. Get the gliding license, sometimes without any demonstration of soaring skill, then go off chase soaring at what ever level you wish to tackle.
Different from the European standards that ties soaring skill and experience in with the rating. Both have pluses and minuses.
For those horrified at the prospect of Airplane CFIs with 15 hour glider instructor add ons, whatever you do don't go look at the minimums for the Sport Pilot Glider Instructor rating. Hint 61.411 lolz
We should have a contest to see which club can make a Sport Pilot Glider Instructor with the least amount of time

That would be a great contest, instead of The Voice, we could say The Course.

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:
The FAA has made it possible for glider plots with very limited time to acquire a CFIG rating with only 15 hours of total glider time. This is truly an accident waiting to happen, what could a glider pilot actually know with such limited time? What do you think?

Remembering my friend Capt. McQuigg.

After flying for Evergreen around the world for a couple of months, he would come down to the GP for some ASW27 time. Ok, Captain, that was the worst damn 27 landing I've ever seen Andy!

Well, Gary after flying 90 feet from the cockpit to the ground in 747's to 3' foot off the runway, it does take a bit of time to get that perspective back...... Of course, us glider guys love to pound our buddies in the ground when we see any APPEARANCE in weakness... When did I get pounded the worst by my glider buddies? When I was 2000 feet, miles into the Everglades and they were looking down at me at 5,000!

This has nothing to do with CFGI! We are always in the competition after that rope is released. Let us keep it light here!!!!

Learning to fly an R22 from a kid that looks like he was 14 years would get you grey hairs real quick! And then to see his hand cocked from that stick as you thought you were going to DIE at the first hover was a learning experience I'll cherish the rest of my life! I made it!

Good point!

I remember the 747 captains from Dallas who would drop it in at Black
Forest due to the higher true airspeed (ground speed) give the 9,000+
foot density altitude we so often had.

On 12/13/2019 4:02 PM, Gary Wayland wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 7:22:28 PM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:
The FAA has made it possible for glider plots with very limited time to acquire a CFIG rating with only 15 hours of total glider time. This is truly an accident waiting to happen, what could a glider pilot actually know with such limited time? What do you think?
Remembering my friend Capt. McQuigg.

After flying for Evergreen around the world for a couple of months, he would come down to the GP for some ASW27 time. Ok, Captain, that was the worst damn 27 landing I've ever seen Andy!

Well, Gary after flying 90 feet from the cockpit to the ground in 747's to 3' foot off the runway, it does take a bit of time to get that perspective back...... Of course, us glider guys love to pound our buddies in the ground when we see any APPEARANCE in weakness... When did I get pounded the worst by my glider buddies? When I was 2000 feet, miles into the Everglades and they were looking down at me at 5,000!

This has nothing to do with CFGI! We are always in the competition after that rope is released. Let us keep it light here!!!!

Learning to fly an R22 from a kid that looks like he was 14 years would get you grey hairs real quick! And then to see his hand cocked from that stick as you thought you were going to DIE at the first hover was a learning experience I'll cherish the rest of my life! I made it!

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 11:38:16 PM UTC-8, 2G wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 9:10:47 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
I recall there was a fatal accident in Hawaii a decade ago or so with a very low time, young instructor who was only flying for few weeks. Very little experience but met the minimum the FAA requires. IIRC he did not manage to recover from a spin.
I don’t have a link but I am sure one can search for it in the NTSB site.

Ramy

Here is what you are referring to:

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...Final&IType=LA

I read this report and I have several hundred hours in 2-32's. Sometime's mishap responsibility lays with the entire organization. For those that do not know a 2-32 is a great honest aircraft, just like a T-6 or SNJ, but ham fist it and you will end up in a spin. There is no way I would let a pilot with 48 hours total time fly one of these birds with passengers! While flying a 2-32 I have experienced an over the top spin entry out of a slip (just in one particular 2-32 and only slipping left wing down) I have had another 2-32 go from a spin to a spiral in ¼ turn. If you are low time this bird is best experienced with someone that knows what they are doing, in my humble opinion. I do love flying a 2-32 though.