HYPOXIA

This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs

Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:55:45 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs
Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'
There is/was a traveling one. I believe it diluted the oxygen percentage instead of reducing pressure. You need a current medical to take a turn and last I heard basic med did not count. I doubt it is in operation during 'rona times.

Le vendredi 11 décembre 2020 Ã* 01:23:10 UTC+1, Waveguru a écritÂ*:
Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules.... omissis...
You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
Boggs

I'm really amazed that some pilots still question the consequences of hypoxia, even, and above all, the mild one. Everything has been studied and described, in particular in chapter 12 of the book “Dancing With the Wind� (on sale in the USA at Cumulus Soaring and Wings & Wheels), subject of a conference at the SSA Convention in Reno in 2018 (downloadable 1) then in an article published in Soaring USA in August 2018 written by the famous Dr. Daniel Johnson in collaboration with Patrick McLaughlin (Mountain High), Dr. Heini Schaffner and myself (downloadable here). And other dangers much more devious and undetectable in the short term seem to be confirmed, according to Dr. Linda Ravetti (USA): prolonged mild hypoxia, that which pilots undergo while spending hours around 10,000 - 13,000 ft without oxygen, would be an aggravating factor in the appearance of Alzheimer's disease. But that, you will not know until 20 years later!
Now, you can't say you didn't know that.
Take care!
1= http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY SSA_OSTIV.pdf
2= https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/u...icle-proof.pdf

Hi, There is a typo in link 1.
Please read
http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY_SSA_OSTIV.pdf
Season greetings!

wrote on 12/11/2020 2:36 AM:
Le vendredi 11 décembre 2020 à 01:23:10 UTC+1, Waveguru a écrit*:
Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules.... omissis...
You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
Boggs

I'm really amazed that some pilots still question the consequences of hypoxia, even, and above all, the mild one. Everything has been studied and described, in particular in chapter 12 of the book “Dancing With the Wind” (on sale in the USA at Cumulus Soaring and Wings & Wheels), subject of a conference at the SSA Convention in Reno in 2018 (downloadable 1) then in an article published in Soaring USA in August 2018 written by the famous Dr. Daniel Johnson in collaboration with Patrick McLaughlin (Mountain High), Dr. Heini Schaffner and myself (downloadable here). And other dangers much more devious and undetectable in the short term seem to be confirmed, according to Dr. Linda Ravetti (USA): prolonged mild hypoxia, that which pilots undergo while spending hours around 10,000 - 13,000 ft without oxygen, would be an aggravating factor in the appearance of Alzheimer's disease. But that, you will not know until 20 years later!
Now, you can't say you didn't know that.
Take care!
1= http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY SSA_OSTIV.pdf
2= https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/u...icle-proof.pdf

For me, the advent of low cost oximeters was the wake-up call. Before then, I followed the FAA
requirements, typically turning on the oxygen at 12,000'; after I got one (20 years ago?), I
realized I need to turn the oxygen on at 10,000'. A few years ago, I noticed Cheynes-Stokes
breathing beginning above 8000', so 8000' is now when I turn it on.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:55:45 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs
Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'
Uli, I remeber being there with you. One thing that sticks with me was the change in vision when the O2 was restored. COLORS came back.
For the low price of oximeters these days, we should all carry one an monitor our personal response to altitude.
FWIW

When I Started flying Hang Gliders here in Telluride and Central Colorado and the Owens Valley I made dozens and dozens of trips up into the low 20's without O2. I also look back and found my self in the landing zone not remembering much on how I got there!
Then in the early 80's a guy by the name of Terry Reynolds put together a batch of nice Hang Gliding friendly O2 systems. Large Kevlar bottles, stainless steel flex lines, regulators. I bought one at our Hang Gliding Festival. I took off and I got up over 18 and remembered I had it; I turned it on and in a few minutes I went from a black and white world to one with color!
Blue Skys, green hills.
O2 is cheap and I'm now with Eric Grennwell. I go on 02 in my glider very low and if I'm cruising at 17+ every hour I turn it up high and do some deep breathing. Also coming into land I turn it up high for a few minutes. You wanna be sharp for the landing.
Nick
T

I started selling Nelson O2 systems in 1991 for hang gliding. Patrick McLaughlin of Mountain High asked if he could sell them also, and I told Jerry Nelson I didn't have a problem with it at all. Safety is safety, and the more sources for the equipment, the better. Mountain High eventually bought the Nelson line of regulators and flowmeters, and went on to develop and patent the Electronic Demand System (EDS) with altitude compensated pulse delivery. To me, it is the single greatest advance in oxygen delivery systems. I have used one in hang gliders and now sailplanes ever since they became available, and have been a dealer since the 90's. Now, at age 67, I set the delivery altitude at 5,000 ft. so I am on O2 even on takeoff. (Moriarty field elevation is 6,200 MSL.) As they say, "Don't leave home without it!"

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2T...1bj9GlVqnzogHl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs

I have been through the altitude chamber a half dozen times, but I didn’t know my symptoms of long term oxygen deprivation until I got hypoxic on a long flight out in the same area the paraglider went down. I was on a 1000K flight and had turned Seregoda mine in the Owens Valley and was near my second turnpoint of Eureka, Nv. I was thermalling near18000 feet when suddenly, I was unable to maintain pitch control !!! Kinda like a PIO ....I was pulling when I should be pushing!
I had been experiencing a mild headache a mild stomachache for hours.........turned the oxygen knob up until the little ball was just dancing off the top of the flow meter and I was instantly able to regain pitch control. Ah ha moment, for me...........headache and stomachache are my hypoxia indicators!
On the ground, I found one of the little bladders in my cannula was ruptured and I had only been getting half the oxygen I needed.
My wife is on occasional oxygen now days after she lost one lobe in her left lung to cancer ..........her long term hypoxia symptoms are the same as mine........headache and stomachache!
JJ