The cost of war

..

Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire and
don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your nest
egg
that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell
your
house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the draw,
you
get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least you
have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.



One can buy his own insurance. The fact that you cannot get a decent policy
is largely due to government interference in insurance.

"Dude" wrote in message
...
.

Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire
and
don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your nest
egg
that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell
your
house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the draw,
you
get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least
you
have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.



One can buy his own insurance. The fact that you cannot get a decent
policy
is largely due to government interference in insurance.

Dude, you're a little out in right field on this one. What do you think
insurance is going to cost you after you have retired and had a bout with
cancer? Either way it's going to cost you your house and everything you
have worked for all your life. This is where countries with socialized
medicine have it over the US. People live longer and pay less for medical
care than in the US. Have a read.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/Health/...btitle=&abc=ab

When I was in Italy in the 80's I asked a fellow how healthcare was paid for
there....he didn't say much about it but he pointed at the price of
gasoline..which was over 4.50 a gallon. I took it that a gas tax paid for
Italy's medical program. I don't think Americans would go for that at all.
To be honest I do not know what is scarier, the government in charge of
our healthcare or selling my home later in life to pay for good health care.
Maybe they could start where the problems start..stop our overpayment of
insurance. That includes ALL insurance, health home auto...seems the
insurance industry has the biggest scam on our citizens than about anything.
"Sandy" wrote in message
...

"Dude" wrote in message
...
.

Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire
and
don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your
nest
egg
that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell
your
house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just
when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the
draw,
you
get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least
you
have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.



One can buy his own insurance. The fact that you cannot get a decent
policy
is largely due to government interference in insurance.

Dude, you're a little out in right field on this one. What do you think
insurance is going to cost you after you have retired and had a bout with
cancer? Either way it's going to cost you your house and everything you
have worked for all your life. This is where countries with socialized
medicine have it over the US. People live longer and pay less for medical
care than in the US. Have a read.


http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/Health/...btitle=&abc=ab

Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire and
don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your nest
egg
that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell
your
house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the draw,
you
get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least you
have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.



One can buy his own insurance. The fact that you cannot get a decent policy
is largely due to government interference in insurance.


You are at least partly right. The bigger issue though is government
interference in the entire healthcare industry.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

When I was in Italy in the 80's I asked a fellow how healthcare was paid for
there....he didn't say much about it but he pointed at the price of
gasoline..which was over 4.50 a gallon. I took it that a gas tax paid for
Italy's medical program. I don't think Americans would go for that at all.

You are right, everybody wants good healthcare but few are really willing to
pay for it.

To be honest I do not know what is scarier, the government in charge of
our healthcare or selling my home later in life to pay for good health care.
Maybe they could start where the problems start..stop our overpayment of
insurance. That includes ALL insurance, health home auto...seems the
insurance industry has the biggest scam on our citizens than about anything.

The government already is in charge of our healthcare. The costs of government
regulations and paperwork alone is out of sight.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

RobertR237 wrote:


and self-aggrandizement.

That's true of any political machine - and certainly just as true of the
Democrats as it is of the Republicans.

They are insane.

Ah. It's all clear now.

To summarize, it appears it's not that the Democrats are actually
*better*,
it's just that you *really* don't want Bush in power.

--
John T


That last statement seems to be the rule of thumb right now, most people
seem
to be casting a vote AGAINST Bush, not voting FOR Kerry.
Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)


That's the way the American political system works, Bob.

Richard

Maybe, but not for me.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Sandy wrote:
"Dude" wrote in message
...

.

Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire

and

don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your nest

egg

that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell

your

house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the draw,

you

get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least

you

have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.



One can buy his own insurance. The fact that you cannot get a decent

policy

is largely due to government interference in insurance.


Dude, you're a little out in right field on this one. What do you think
insurance is going to cost you after you have retired and had a bout with
cancer? Either way it's going to cost you your house and everything you
have worked for all your life. This is where countries with socialized
medicine have it over the US. People live longer and pay less for medical
care than in the US. Have a read.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/Health/...btitle=&abc=ab



And your way to the left.

Why is it anyone's responsibility to protect you from bad luck? Why do
you have a right to be protected from what you consider catastrophe
(living in a trailer park)? Should I also round up a group of citizens
and force them you buy you a new car in the event you wreck yours?

If you can't afford or don't want to pay for the health insurance, then
do like everyone has done since Adam and Eve got driven from the
Garden...lay down and die. It is going to happen eventually, no matter
how you try to stop it (My Dad always told me that no one has gotten out
of this life alive yet.)

You do not want insurance. You want socialized medicine. In the game
of insurance, you pay someone to accept your liability. Using the Law
of Large numbers, the insurer makes a profit by charging enough to lots
of clients to cover what he'll lose.

We know that everyone will get old, then feeble and eventually die. We
can only take this for granted, only because that has been the course in
every completed life up to this point. In order to cover everyone with
'insurance', the insurer would have to charge enough to cover everyone's
healtcare...at which point, it would be cheaper just to pay yourself and
the insurer has become redundant, a useless drain on the system.

The problem we have is that people want insurance to cover maintenance
healthcare. You don't know what the doc is getting paid, so you never
bother to call 'bull****' at their bills, and the system continues in a
downward spiral.

--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"This is by far the hardest lesson to learn about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make mistakes.
We want to help them, which means control them and their decisions,
but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

Sandy,

The following externalities prevent our insurance system from working in the
case of healthca

1. Forced coverage - you cannot buy insurance to cover what you want.
Regulations force coverage and non coverage based on state politics

2. Medicare is hard to compete with. Competing with the government is just
silly, and most businesses don't want to try it.

3. Subsidy of employer based coverage through the tax code. This is the
big one, and most important one here. You cannot get health insurance
because you cannot buy a cradle to grave policy. Your employment situation
forces you into groups based on job stays and inevitably forces changes in
policy throughout your life. Instead, you go from dependent of your
parents employment group or groups, to possibly a student group, to then a
number of employment groups, and then are put in the medicare group. At
each change serious government involvement and inefficiency prevent your
making any choices of importance, taking the market out of the situation,
and driving up costs in ridiculous ways.

So, you could, if you had paid into a policy for your entire life, have
built up enough reserve for at least one stint of heroic medicine to extend
your life. This could easily be done for the amount that most workers pay
into the system now. Also, if you paid more directly, and were more
financially involved in price quality decisions for your care your health
cost would be much reduced. Instead, you likely have ZERO involvement even
though you are the best person to police it on the scene.

4. State licensing. The licensing system is overly burdensome, driving up
costs

5. Tort. Defensive medicine is used because you cannot be allowed as a
patient to make decisions based on reasonable outcome expectancies. Also,
because you have no financial involvement, you just get ALL the tests.
Failure to give a test should not be automatic negligence if its not called
for the presented systems, unfortunately, juries expect doctors to be
perfect.

6. Reverse price competition. Instead of competing on price and value, the
present system is a strange maze of over and under payment negotiated
without any of the real customers being involved in the negotiation at all.

7. Inability to refuse care. Emergency rooms cannot turn you away for any
reason at all. While inability to pay is likely a good restriction, how
about we tell you that you are not eligible due to lack of need - GOODBYE.
Or, when you pester the ER all the time, and never pay, we send you away for
consistent REFUSAL to pay.

8. Cost shifting of socialist systems from countries with government
healthcare to the US. These systems will begin to fail the day the US
forces the pharmaceutical companies into the same situation they force our
doctors into. Namely, you must charge the US government covered patients
the lowest price you charge anyone, or we throw you in jail. Now, progress
in healthcare will virtually cease.

Sorry Sandy, I am not out in any field on this. I am just unwilling to look
at the present system and accept it. It sucks. Really, the system we have
is outside the stadium and it started with job based health insurance.
Socialist healthcare will not improve the system in the US for anyone except
the working poor and stupid. 80% of us will suffer.

Your question assumes that someone would have no insurance until after they
found they had cancer. Of course, no one will sell it to you then. That
would be stupid, and wouldn't work. But wait, that's what we have now.
Once you spend ALL your money, then you get Uncle Sugar to pay. Thus
rewarding lack of financial responsibility.

Lastly, your link does not support your statement, and is hardly conclusive
at all. No findings were made on quality of care. Also, healthcare is
definitely NOT the largest contributor life expectancy. Sanitation, life
style, diet, and climate would all beat out health care. Your doctor can
add a year or two on average. Better living and genes can add decades.




"Sandy" wrote in message
...

"Dude" wrote in message
...
.

Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire
and
don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your
nest
egg
that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell
your
house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just
when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the
draw,
you
get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least
you
have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.



One can buy his own insurance. The fact that you cannot get a decent
policy
is largely due to government interference in insurance.

Dude, you're a little out in right field on this one. What do you think
insurance is going to cost you after you have retired and had a bout with
cancer? Either way it's going to cost you your house and everything you
have worked for all your life. This is where countries with socialized
medicine have it over the US. People live longer and pay less for medical
care than in the US. Have a read.


http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/Health/...btitle=&abc=ab

"RobertR237" wrote in message
...


Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire
and
don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your
nest
egg
that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell
your
house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just
when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the
draw,
you
get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least
you
have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.



One can buy his own insurance. The fact that you cannot get a decent
policy
is largely due to government interference in insurance.


You are at least partly right. The bigger issue though is government
interference in the entire healthcare industry.


Yep. Perhaps laissez faire is not the end all solution due to the percieved
cost of death, but lack of any market force is killing the whole thing.




Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:18:07 -0700, "Sandy" wrote:

Just how does one save up for radical cancer therapy after you retire and
don't have company health insurance. No insurance company is going to
insure you and if you do find insurance you can say goodbye to your nest egg
that you have been saving for all your life. Oh yeah, you get to sell your
house and give it to a doctor. What a great way to grow old. Just when
you've finished working all your life, and through the luck of the draw, you
get to lose everything you own to the health industry. But, at least you
have your life, such that it is, living in a rental at a trailer park.

**** happens. If I may be so bold, I would suggest that if you are
still alive to bitch about it on the internet, that the evil US health
industy earned every penny of your life savings.

================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
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