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US Competition Pilot Poll



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 2nd 17, 11:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,124
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

Hello US competition pilots.
Our annual poll about topics related to competition and associated rules is now open at http://www.adamsfive.com/a5soaring/survey/surveys.php.
It is open to all pilots on the ranking list.
Feedback from the poll and associated comments, as well as messages via e-mail to committee members, are the basis for our annual deliberations.
Please participate and mention to your contest buddies.
The poll is open until October 18th.
For the RC
UH
  #2  
Old October 3rd 17, 07:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,610
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

A few problems he

6.1.2 - Ambiguous; what does a "YES" answer mean?
6.3.1 - What does "MyChoice" checkbox mean?
6.3.2 - """"

Thanks!
  #3  
Old October 3rd 17, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Posts: 430
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:53:33 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
A few problems he

6.1.2 - Ambiguous; what does a "YES" answer mean?
6.3.1 - What does "MyChoice" checkbox mean?
6.3.2 - """"

Thanks!


I didn't have a problem with "my choice". Just look to the left to see what you'd be choosing. 6.1.2 though will have to be ignored.
  #4  
Old October 3rd 17, 08:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,124
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:53:33 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
A few problems he

6.1.2 - Ambiguous; what does a "YES" answer mean?
6.3.1 - What does "MyChoice" checkbox mean?
6.3.2 - """"

Thanks!


We flubbed that question.
6.1.2 will shortly be revised to
""If start out the top is retained, do you favor retaining (yes) or eliminating (no) the rule only giving distance credit for starts in the front half of the cylinder?"
For the RC
UH
  #5  
Old October 4th 17, 04:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
MNLou
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Posts: 271
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

On question 3.1 under Tracking, there could be multiple answers. I use both an InReach and a cell phone tracker.

Thanks!

Lou
  #6  
Old October 5th 17, 07:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

I would like to see the current opinion poll published PUBLICLY each year and not hidden inside the poll tool.

What are you guys so afraid of? Why are you hiding this document? Even though only a few take the poll the methods and topics are useful for the entire SSA membership. No?

Where can we see it? I look forward to discussing how some the questions are leading and "framed" (ROTFL). It's hilarious.

I took screenshots of course, but would like to give the RC the opportunity to publish their poll themselves on the SSA website so we can see what they are doing (those not "qualified" to be included in the poll…"

Ill give this 48 hours…then its weapons free.

The way these questions are written is nothing less than hysterical and it must be discussed in open forums and on social media.

Thanks,

Sean
  #7  
Old October 5th 17, 07:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 962
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 2:12:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I would like to see the current opinion poll published PUBLICLY each year and not hidden inside the poll tool.

What are you guys so afraid of? Why are you hiding this document? Even though only a few take the poll the methods and topics are useful for the entire SSA membership. No?

Where can we see it? I look forward to discussing how some the questions are leading and "framed" (ROTFL). It's hilarious.

I took screenshots of course, but would like to give the RC the opportunity to publish their poll themselves on the SSA website so we can see what they are doing (those not "qualified" to be included in the poll…"

Ill give this 48 hours…then its weapons free.

The way these questions are written is nothing less than hysterical and it must be discussed in open forums and on social media.

Thanks,

Sean


lol @ Mr Internet Tough Guy. I was just wondering out loud (yesterday, I have witnesses) who you were going to insult, next. You're getting awfully predictable there.

It is sort of interesting that this has escaped your notice....
http://www.ssa.org/ContestRules

Yep, there are all the opinion polls, with responses, all handy and public. Not the 2017 poll, yet, of course, but in due time, they always publish.

Cheers,
T8


  #8  
Old October 5th 17, 10:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 56
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 2:12:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I would like to see the current opinion poll published PUBLICLY each year and not hidden inside the poll tool.
Thanks,

Sean


The secret to the hidden poll tool is to enter any name and any number, then you can see all the questions. To submit, the name and number have to be valid.

It isn't hard, you just need to stop complaining long enough to give it a try.

Guy Byars


  #9  
Old October 6th 17, 03:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 8
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:49:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Hello US competition pilots.
Our annual poll about topics related to competition and associated rules is now open at http://www.adamsfive.com/a5soaring/survey/surveys.php.
It is open to all pilots on the ranking list.
Feedback from the poll and associated comments, as well as messages via e-mail to committee members, are the basis for our annual deliberations.
Please participate and mention to your contest buddies.
The poll is open until October 18th.
For the RC
UH


Sean,
Thanks for advocating that we consider FAI rules. I was pleased to see the topic in the poll.

If the Rules Committee is anything like the US Team Committee someone volunteers to produce the text and the committee comments on it and that's it. You get the natural bias of the individuals involved - this is normal.

Perhaps the best way to influence this is to submit suggested poll questions to the committee during summer. I remember being polled for questions at the Uvalde rules meeting. My topics got included but I did not provide suggested question text, so some kind fellow wrote the question without my involvement. Overall it appears to be working.

Each question has a comment box where you could suggest what the question should have been and your response. It's hard to please everyone but the comment box really helps.

UH and Diane rescued me and my trailer from the side of a dark and rainy NJ highway on the way to Uvalde after a van fuel line failure. God bless them.. This is not the behavior that I associate with some master rules plot.

Let's try to find a positive way to encourage reasoned dialogue.

Cheers,
Bob Fletcher 90
  #10  
Old October 6th 17, 07:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 1,005
Default US Competition Pilot Poll

90,

I see three systemic and troubling issues with the SSA US rules system (opinion poll, RC, etc.). We have discussed these offline, and you made some strong points. Nonetheless, the current system is quite flawed (biased) if you are not part of the SSA good old boys, anti-FAI, groupthink. You made another great point that this bias is natural and difficult to purge (and bias systems do not want to be exterminated). That is the heart of the issue.

MY PRIMARY CONCERN with US rules remains that doing so when the international soaring community already manages the FAI rules, is exceptionally inefficient. US rules are a HUGE waste of time when you consider a rule system is already available and is already used by the vast majority of the soaring world, right now, today. Don't we have better things to focus on?

What is the value of US Rules? What do we gain by recreating and maintaining our own custom "wheels" for everything? Do we have higher contest participation? Greater safety? Higher growth? More Youth? No. No, we do not.. Think about that for a moment. Despite no tangible value, we still spend the resources to manage: The US rules definitions, US Rules scoring software, US rules handicaps, SSA contest management systems (registration, etc.), SSA scoring display websites (SSA.org, SUCKS!), SSA contest reporting, SSA contest tracking, etc. Also, having our own obscure US rule system isolates our contest pilots, and our youth from the FAI raking system, contest reporting community, social media, etc.

1) The US Rules Committee has been staffed exclusively by people who genuinely believe that US rules are a better path and the FAI rules are bad. Without this general viewpoint, their election to the US RC is highly unlikely, to this day. That is a biased system.

2) The US Rules opinion poll is written by these same US rules "fans" who make it to the committee. They are inherently biased. US rules ARE DOGMA to them. Now that some pressure is on them (return to FAI makes sense to many US pilots), they are paying lip service to the FAI idea (offering a slow change option, whatever that means). I believe they are also trying to buy time to (they hope) effect change in other areas (FAI scoring, etc.). Most of the Good Old Boys do not want FAI rules. They still, in general, actively dislike the FAI and strongly prefer the power the US rules system provides them (killing technology, etc.). They even go so far as to write their own point/counterpoint addendums to many of the most controversial questions in their own poll. And as you might expect, those point/counterpoint descriptions are WAY OFF THE MARK in describing the argument for FAI rules, for no out the top start, for no extra TAT distance accumulation in ASSIGNED(?) task turns, etc. I'll point this out in a blog post I am writing, as promised. I have saved screenshots of all opinion polls that I have experienced. The examples are PLENTIFUL.

3) The same gang then "analyzes" the results and makes policy.

I will continue to advocate for a better system for determining our rules direction.

Sean
7T

At a minimum, the counterpoints in the questions should be written (or linked externally) to a real argument by those who believe passionately in them.. Not paraphrased by those who don't want them.



On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 10:57:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:49:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Hello US competition pilots.
Our annual poll about topics related to competition and associated rules is now open at http://www.adamsfive.com/a5soaring/survey/surveys.php.
It is open to all pilots on the ranking list.
Feedback from the poll and associated comments, as well as messages via e-mail to committee members, are the basis for our annual deliberations.
Please participate and mention to your contest buddies.
The poll is open until October 18th.
For the RC
UH


Sean,
Thanks for advocating that we consider FAI rules. I was pleased to see the topic in the poll.

If the Rules Committee is anything like the US Team Committee someone volunteers to produce the text and the committee comments on it and that's it. You get the natural bias of the individuals involved - this is normal.

Perhaps the best way to influence this is to submit suggested poll questions to the committee during summer. I remember being polled for questions at the Uvalde rules meeting. My topics got included but I did not provide suggested question text, so some kind fellow wrote the question without my involvement. Overall it appears to be working.

Each question has a comment box where you could suggest what the question should have been and your response. It's hard to please everyone but the comment box really helps.

UH and Diane rescued me and my trailer from the side of a dark and rainy NJ highway on the way to Uvalde after a van fuel line failure. God bless them. This is not the behavior that I associate with some master rules plot.

Let's try to find a positive way to encourage reasoned dialogue.

Cheers,
Bob Fletcher 90

 




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