Is a "yellow-tag" really necessary?

Nice call, Doug!

On 8 Mar 2004 03:43:36 -0800, (Doug)
wrote:

Nice myth. Similar to the myth that if the pilot broke the FARs, the
insurance company doesn't pay. Tell me, in your car, if you fail to
maintain your brakes, can't stop and crash, does your insurance
company deny your claim? Same thing with running a stop sign and
running into someone. If my insurance contained clauses allowing
denial of claims due to maintenance defects or pilot error, I would
NOT insure with that company. I have never seen such clauses in ANY
insurance policy I have ever read.

But I agree it is a common aviation myth, usually propagated by
instructors (usually instructors who have NEVER owned an airplane nor
READ an insurance policy).

Doug wrote:
Nice myth. Similar to the myth that if the pilot broke the FARs, the
insurance company doesn't pay. Tell me, in your car, if you fail to
maintain your brakes, can't stop and crash, does your insurance
company deny your claim? Same thing with running a stop sign and
running into someone. If my insurance contained clauses allowing
denial of claims due to maintenance defects or pilot error, I would
NOT insure with that company. I have never seen such clauses in ANY
insurance policy I have ever read.

But I agree it is a common aviation myth, usually propagated by
instructors (usually instructors who have NEVER owned an airplane nor
READ an insurance policy).

The insurance company will pay... and then they will subrogate.

BTIZ wrote:


Serial numbers on the AI do not match the log books, someone swapped out his
AI.

Please. In old planes like we all fly you will never find all the
serial numbers in the logbooks for all the stuff in your plane.

"BTIZ" wrote in message news:lqT2c.17428$id3.8997@fed1read01...
any reputable mechanic will check the part numbers to make sure it is an
"approved replacement"..

ask your buddy to go through his logbooks and get the yellow tag

BT

"Andre" wrote in message
m...
Stu Gotts wrote in message
. ..
On 7 Mar 2004 01:01:09 -0800, (Andre) wrote:

Ok, let's say my TSO'd Attitude Indicator (AI) in my Cherokee goes
belly-up, and my friend just happens to have one he removed from his
machine a month ago as part of a complete panel upgrade. We both KNOW
the thing works fine and would solve my problem.

What's the ramifications of just having it installed in my Cherokee?
Is it OK without a yellow-tag? If not, why not? Isn't there any
discretion on the the part of the mechanic to install a part he has
observed as functional in one airplane and put it directly in another?

I hear if you ask an instrument shop to check it out and yellow-tag
it, they will often refuse unless you pay them to do a COMPLETE
OVERHAUL. Is that true?

If the part is a certified one (doesn't have to be TSO'd) and is
listed as a direct replacement, all that is necessary is a proper log
book entry.

An instrument shop can inspect and return the part to service "yellow
tagged". They would probably insist of tweaking it which will cost
you the same as having it o/h'd. If it works, put it in. When it
dies, replace it.


Stu,

Thanks to you and the others for your post. What I need to find out
is what to tell the mechanic when I hand it to him (with no
yellow-tag).

It sounds like all I have to say is that the gyro is listed as a
direct replacement (I assume a Sigma-Tek 5000B-36 IS a direct
replacement), that it is in working condition, so JUST INSTALL it and
make a logbook entry.................please...

Does that sound correct?

By the way, where WOULD I find a list of approved replacement attitude
indicators for an Arrow II?

Andre


BT,

In the REAL story, this instrument was bought from a guy who acquired
it as part of a fairly complete RV-6 homebuilt package but didn't need
either the AI or the DG, so he's selling them to me. Unless the guy
HE got the RV-6 package from has a yellow-tag (or manf'r tag), I doubt
I'll be able to acquire one. I WILL try and track down the guy he got
it from, anyways, on the outside chance he might have something
although it's been over a year.

I was just hoping to avoid the hassle and get my mechanic to install
the thing, and needed some advice on what resistance I might get from
him.

Andre

A mechanic who understands how the real world works is worth his weight in
unicorn dung. Stop looking for a yellow tag and start looking for a real
mechanic as opposed to a paper shuffler.

Jim


(Andre)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


-I was just hoping to avoid the hassle and get my mechanic to install
-the thing, and needed some advice on what resistance I might get from
-him.
-
-Andre

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

Yes a yellow tag is needed... or better yet an 8130.
No A&P in his right mind is going to install a part without some
traceability.
It amazes me the work you owners do on your airplanes. You cannot
legally install this without an A&P.
Joe



john smith wrote in message ...
Doug wrote:
Nice myth. Similar to the myth that if the pilot broke the FARs, the
insurance company doesn't pay. Tell me, in your car, if you fail to
maintain your brakes, can't stop and crash, does your insurance
company deny your claim? Same thing with running a stop sign and
running into someone. If my insurance contained clauses allowing
denial of claims due to maintenance defects or pilot error, I would
NOT insure with that company. I have never seen such clauses in ANY
insurance policy I have ever read.

But I agree it is a common aviation myth, usually propagated by
instructors (usually instructors who have NEVER owned an airplane nor
READ an insurance policy).

The insurance company will pay... and then they will subrogate.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Doug wrote:
Nice myth. Similar to the myth that if the pilot broke the FARs, the
insurance company doesn't pay. Tell me, in your car, if you fail to
maintain your brakes, can't stop and crash, does your insurance
company deny your claim? Same thing with running a stop sign and
running into someone. If my insurance contained clauses allowing
denial of claims due to maintenance defects or pilot error, I would
NOT insure with that company. I have never seen such clauses in ANY
insurance policy I have ever read.

But I agree it is a common aviation myth, usually propagated by
instructors (usually instructors who have NEVER owned an airplane nor
READ an insurance policy).

The insurance company will pay... and then they will subrogate.

Subrogate whom? The person they just paid the claim to? Another myth.

In article vb13c.86722$PR3.1221485@attbi_s03, Newps
wrote:

Serial numbers on the AI do not match the log books, someone swapped
out his
AI.

Please. In old planes like we all fly you will never find all the
serial numbers in the logbooks for all the stuff in your plane.

heck, on my pa-28-140, the prop serial number didn't match
the logs.

--
Bob Noel

bottom line... it's up to your mech..

BT

"Andre" wrote in message
om...
"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:lqT2c.17428$id3.8997@fed1read01...
any reputable mechanic will check the part numbers to make sure it is an
"approved replacement"..

ask your buddy to go through his logbooks and get the yellow tag

BT

"Andre" wrote in message
m...
Stu Gotts wrote in message
. ..
On 7 Mar 2004 01:01:09 -0800, (Andre) wrote:

Ok, let's say my TSO'd Attitude Indicator (AI) in my Cherokee goes
belly-up, and my friend just happens to have one he removed from
his
machine a month ago as part of a complete panel upgrade. We both
KNOW
the thing works fine and would solve my problem.

What's the ramifications of just having it installed in my
Cherokee?
Is it OK without a yellow-tag? If not, why not? Isn't there any
discretion on the the part of the mechanic to install a part he has
observed as functional in one airplane and put it directly in
another?

I hear if you ask an instrument shop to check it out and yellow-tag
it, they will often refuse unless you pay them to do a COMPLETE
OVERHAUL. Is that true?

If the part is a certified one (doesn't have to be TSO'd) and is
listed as a direct replacement, all that is necessary is a proper
log
book entry.

An instrument shop can inspect and return the part to service
"yellow
tagged". They would probably insist of tweaking it which will cost
you the same as having it o/h'd. If it works, put it in. When it
dies, replace it.


Stu,

Thanks to you and the others for your post. What I need to find out
is what to tell the mechanic when I hand it to him (with no
yellow-tag).

It sounds like all I have to say is that the gyro is listed as a
direct replacement (I assume a Sigma-Tek 5000B-36 IS a direct
replacement), that it is in working condition, so JUST INSTALL it and
make a logbook entry.................please...

Does that sound correct?

By the way, where WOULD I find a list of approved replacement attitude
indicators for an Arrow II?

Andre


BT,

In the REAL story, this instrument was bought from a guy who acquired
it as part of a fairly complete RV-6 homebuilt package but didn't need
either the AI or the DG, so he's selling them to me. Unless the guy
HE got the RV-6 package from has a yellow-tag (or manf'r tag), I doubt
I'll be able to acquire one. I WILL try and track down the guy he got
it from, anyways, on the outside chance he might have something
although it's been over a year.

I was just hoping to avoid the hassle and get my mechanic to install
the thing, and needed some advice on what resistance I might get from
him.

Andre

Jim,

As a clearly well respected expert on both maintenance procedures, AND
unicorn dung, I want you to know that my primary intention in STARTING
this posting was EXACTLY to find out HOW to tell a REAL mechanic FROM
a paper-shuffler. I need guys like you to tell me what a REAL
mechanic SHOULD do when asked to put in an AI under the circumstances
outlined. Armed with THAT information, I will be able to call him on
his drible (if that's what I get) when I approach him next week and
hand him the AI to install. But FIRST, I need some guidance on what's
drible, and what's not. That's where I could use your very specific
help.

So, could YOU please tell me what I should expect from my mechanic,
under the circumstances outlined, if he WERE a REAL mechanic? The
more specific the better...

Thanking you in advance...

Andre



Jim Weir wrote in message . ..
A mechanic who understands how the real world works is worth his weight in
unicorn dung. Stop looking for a yellow tag and start looking for a real
mechanic as opposed to a paper shuffler.

Jim


(Andre)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


-I was just hoping to avoid the hassle and get my mechanic to install
-the thing, and needed some advice on what resistance I might get from
-him.
-
-Andre

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com