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#101
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"Cub Driver" a écrit dans le message de
... Aren't freedom of speech and democracy the very concepts your country was built upon? Many Americans don't understand the concept of free speech, so I'm not surprised that the concept should elude a Frenchman. Freedom of speech is not a concept known and practiced only by Americans. Don't be so self-centered. The U.S. Constitution imposes upon me the duty to give another man the freedom to speak his mind. It does not, however, impose upon me a duty to listen. Last time I checked, the US constitution had not been adopted yet as the new UN chart, not even as the new Usenet one. Anyway, I get your point and you're right, but the other poster seemed to raise conditions to that freedom to speak, a sort of "you want to talk? Then you have to got a GDP or a gun at least as big as mine"... Have we learn nothing from the previous century? As for democracy--ayuh! That's what Americans for more than a hundred years have bled for, bringing democracy to Cuba, France, Iraq, and other unfortunate places. But loving democracy does not oblige us to treat M. Chirac with respect. Quite the contrary, in fact. The American brand of democracy has always had a strong vein of irreverance built into it. Irreverance and objective criticism are fine. You can say whatever you want about Chirac's policy or even the man himself, I don't care. He's a public man, a politician, and therefore is exposed to that kind of treatment as it goes with the job. What I can't stand is the concept of bashing an entire country and its population with specious and tasteless arguments just because you don't agree (or not even understand) its position. ArVa |
#102
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"BUFDRVR" a écrit dans le message de ... True,but,really,nobody said that,nobody asked poland or any other to dtop support us, that's not the point.The way it has been done,and announced is the point. Wrong. Chirac made a statement at an EU meeting in February that "certain nations" (paraphrase) needed to "keep their mouths shut" (paraphrase) if they wanted to be granted admission to the EU. This was clearly directed at many Eastern European nations who were openly supporting the US. Chirac's statement was a rather poor one but there was no "if they wanted to be granted admission to the EU" part. France alone does not have the power to forbid countries to enter the Union and the idea probably not even seriously crossed Chirac's mind. ArVa |
#103
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"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de m... Are you seriously denying that there was a French bashing campaign in the US? Yes. There was not, by any stretch, a campaign to bash the French for their pathetic actions of this year. Call me paranoid, but despite your denials I'm not so sure the French bashing was not somewhat fueled by convenient "official source" leaks (remember the helicopter parts, the passports, the missiles?) and high rank official statements. Anyway, be it organized or not, it's more the extent of the phenomenon that gives the impression of a campaign. The French got bashed, for sure, but it was not anything like a "campaign," and not that common, compared to the official French line of portraying the US as an evil empire in the making. There is not (and never was), by any stretch, an official French line of portraying the US as an evil empire. Seriously. I don't intend to play the French gvt's advocate but you can take any declaration you'd like, you won't find any offensive statement. On the other hand, who talked about punishment? Which country representatives, at national, state or local levels, isssued statements and decrees to harm the other's interests (and I'm not only refering to the stupid "Freedom fries" incident)? It's true a part of the French press (and therefore of the public opinion) is usually very critic of the American policy, be it foreign, concerning environmental issues or other fields (just like is a part of the US press itself), but you won't find American *bashing* in it. ArVa |
#104
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"Frank Vaughan" a écrit dans le message de
... Yes, and the decision by the mayor of Paris to name a convicted American cop killer as an honorary citizen was what???? Just one more magnanimous effort at humanitarianism? Who is that cop killer? **** the French. We have a pretty good record at doing it without external help, but thanks anyway... ArVa |
#105
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#106
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ok,you got it!
good guy... nice,now. A good sleep,no? "Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news: ... In article , "Mike" wrote: This Chad Irby is totally brainwashed... ...said the French guy who apparently doesn't read his own national papers... -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#108
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Then stay there,and please stop talking about things you don't know
anything. "Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news: ... In article , (BUFDRVR) wrote: When I hear a whiney kid point at an old house (say 40 years+) and go "Gee Ma, is that a castle?" it's hard not to be rude. You're kidding right? You want to swap stupid tourist stories? Every nation has them. I was walking down the main street in Hoboken NJ listening to a German (or Belgian or Dutch or Danish, couldn't really tell), ask his American buddy if Hoboken was part of New York City. Unlike you, his friend replied politely (pointing east across the Hudson); "that's NYC, we're still in New Jersey". I got a chuckle out of it, but would not have been so French as to laugh out loud. You think you have it bad? I live in Orlando. Tourist capital of the friggin' *planet*. Any bad story or comment you hear about Americans is a drop in the bucket compared to everyday life in The City Beautiful... -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#109
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"ian maclure" a écrit dans le message de news: ... In article , "IO" wrote: Chad Irby wrote: In article , "IO" wrote: I'm italian and in my opinion the "french bashing" is a stupid and racist thing. It's not a race issue. We make the same comments about any idiots who act like that. If you want to criticize Chirac ok... But please don't say that all the french are monkeys or make stupid and false comments on French Thats "cheese eating surrender monkeys" to be precise. cowardy... Remember Die Bien Phu They lost. Like you did...... .......and like you will in Irak or french resistance against nazis... They folded then spent the rest of the war ratting each other out to the Gestapo. Waouh,a historian!.... Your (american) behaviour is very offensive to me and to europeans.... And also Russia, Germany, Mexico, Canada, Chile ecc was against usa on Iraq resolution remeber this... Oooooh, those damnable Canuckleheads, they are going to pay through the nose for that...... IBM __________________________________________________ __________________________ ___ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com The Worlds Uncensored News Source |
#110
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ArVa wrote in message
... When one's acts have repercussions on the whole world, everyone has a say. Aren't freedom of speech and democracy the very concepts your country was built upon? Does the 20th century in Europe really match your idea of a garden party? Yes, we have experienced wars and yes, we have experienced and still experience terrorism; just like you... Nobody denies that the wolf has to be taken out but the problem is that the beast is not at the door but hides deep in the forest. One can go after it swiftly, with dogs and horns, but then the wolf might escape (sounds familiar?), or one can go stealthy, ambush, and shoot it while it's drinking at the pond. ArVa The last I looked, American policy is decided by American leaders. You can tell the other UN misfits that they can vote for the sun to stand still or the Summer weather to stay moderate for all the good it does them. When the French and other weasel nations of Europe demonstrate they can assume the responsibilities of modern nations perhaps I will expect responsible action from them. Don't hold your breath. Kosovo proves that nothing larger than a soccer riot should be trusted to them. -- Scott -------- "Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq, there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm |
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