If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:27:41 GMT, "SeeAndAvoid"
wrote: "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote "N1234, expect visual runway 25, advise when you have atis Xray and the airport in sight" Why not just: "N5843Q, expect visual runway 32"? It's shorter and conveys the same information and (implied) request. It may be shorter, but we are required to know the other two items: that you have the current weather (atis) and that you have the airport in sight. Oops, I overlooked the ATIS in your initial callup and I agree that if the pilot does not report it, that you should request it. I was always taught to advise the controller on my initial callup that I have the ATIS. But, it is frequent for me to be asked if I have the ATIS even when I have just called in reporting that I DO have the ATIS! So far as the other, the pilot should know that he has to report the airport (or preceding a/c) in sight in order to get the visual. So when you say "expect", that primes me to report the airport in sight. Most airports I do approaches to dont have an ATIS, so it's a moot point. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Do you say you have "the ATIS" or do you say you have the
appropriate/current ATIS code. Makes a difference to the controller. JPH Ron Rosenfeld wrote: On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:27:41 GMT, "SeeAndAvoid" wrote: "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote "N1234, expect visual runway 25, advise when you have atis Xray and the airport in sight" Why not just: "N5843Q, expect visual runway 32"? It's shorter and conveys the same information and (implied) request. It may be shorter, but we are required to know the other two items: that you have the current weather (atis) and that you have the airport in sight. Oops, I overlooked the ATIS in your initial callup and I agree that if the pilot does not report it, that you should request it. I was always taught to advise the controller on my initial callup that I have the ATIS. But, it is frequent for me to be asked if I have the ATIS even when I have just called in reporting that I DO have the ATIS! So far as the other, the pilot should know that he has to report the airport (or preceding a/c) in sight in order to get the visual. So when you say "expect", that primes me to report the airport in sight. Most airports I do approaches to dont have an ATIS, so it's a moot point. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
I've had the same experience. I usually check in with something like
"Approach, Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa." about half the time I get asked if I have the ATIS, told to report when I have the ATIS, or told ATIS papa is current. J Haggerty wrote: Do you say you have "the ATIS" or do you say you have the appropriate/current ATIS code. Makes a difference to the controller. But, it is frequent for me to be asked if I have the ATIS even when I have just called in reporting that I DO have the ATIS! -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Ray Andraka wrote:
I've had the same experience. I usually check in with something like "Approach, Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa." To change the topic a bit... I've been flying lately with somebody who tends to leave off the "who you're talking to" part of radio calls. He would make the above call as simply, "Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa". It drives me nuts, but the more I think about it, I wonder if it's really a problem? What do you controllers say? Do you like to have every pilot call you by name at the beginning of each call, or is it just extraneous verbiage that could be dropped with no harm done? |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
"Roy Smith" wrote in message ... To change the topic a bit... I've been flying lately with somebody who tends to leave off the "who you're talking to" part of radio calls. He would make the above call as simply, "Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa". It drives me nuts, but the more I think about it, I wonder if it's really a problem? What do you controllers say? Do you like to have every pilot call you by name at the beginning of each call, or is it just extraneous verbiage that could be dropped with no harm done? I find being called by name to be useful, especially when it's the wrong name. |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
I get called all kinds of things, and I usually joke about it that
I'm used to it being married and all. I guess it's not such a big deal, and I dont rub it in if I get called the wrong facility, but it'd be nice if the crew knew where they were I'd think. On the flip side, what if I reply "504 (leaving out airline callsign), roger". Technically it's incorrect, and not being a walking FAR knowitall, I'd guess you are supposed to identify what facility you are calling, but I'm too lazy to look it up. Being called "approach" is about the only real insult, on those occasions I may reply with the name of an airline that may offend them, or call a Citation a twin cessna, etc. So in summary, the wrong facility name when I'm not staring at the scope may send up a warning flag that someone possibly got the wrong freq. No facility name at all to me means they didnt understand it from the last sector, very possible, forgot it, also possible, or lazy, equally possible. Chris "Roy Smith" wrote in message ... Ray Andraka wrote: I've had the same experience. I usually check in with something like "Approach, Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa." To change the topic a bit... I've been flying lately with somebody who tends to leave off the "who you're talking to" part of radio calls. He would make the above call as simply, "Cherokee 3351W, level five thousand, information papa". It drives me nuts, but the more I think about it, I wonder if it's really a problem? What do you controllers say? Do you like to have every pilot call you by name at the beginning of each call, or is it just extraneous verbiage that could be dropped with no harm done? |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
We have some airports that have AWOS, but we don't get any of
that info into our computer, but the pilot can receive it. We have a couple that we have no weather reporting, but the pilot can get it from their company on the ground, and they let us know. And theres a couple that MAYBE they can get someone to answer unicom and get the weather. There are only a few left I can think of that have no SIAP, no AWOS, and lucky to have anything living within 20nm of it. Those pilots usually know what they are dealing with way in advance and have done it regularly and cancel way out. They arent going to get a contact approach, those are the ones that will on occasion ask for a cruise clearance, but those are also airports with sometimes no phones and no cellular coverage. In the end it's up to the pilot to get the weather, and if it's not available we have to advise them of that, too. Luckily the weather at those airports are VFR probably 350 days out of the year, but talk about remote. One guy called from a phonebooth, needed a clearance, but also time to drive back to the airport (30mins away), get started and go. A couple have recently worked out private approaches and someone available on the ground associated with the airplane to get them the weather, Lifeguard flights usually, with an employee of the hospital nearby giving them the conditions. Chris "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "SeeAndAvoid" wrote in message link.net... It may be shorter, but we are required to know the other two items: that you have the current weather (atis) and that you have the airport in sight. How are you going to know the current weather at fields without weather reporting? Can skip that info if pilot advises he has the ATIS, but since the rule says the controller shall advise of the approach on initial contact or as soon as possible thereafter, the pilot has to advise of the ATIS on his initial contact. Most airports I do approaches to dont have an ATIS, so it's a moot point. See 7110.65 Par 4-7-10 http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0407.html#4-7-1 4-7-10. APPROACH INFORMATION a. Both en route and terminal approach control sectors shall provide current approach information to aircraft destined to airports for which they provide approach control services. This information shall be provided on initial contact or as soon as possible thereafter. Approach information contained in the ATIS broadcast may be omitted if the pilot states the appropriate ATIS code or items 3-5 below may be omitted for pilots destined to uncontrolled airports when they advise receipt of the automated weather; otherwise, issue approach information by including the following: 1. Approach clearance or type approach to be expected if two or more approaches are published and the clearance limit does not indicate which will be used. 2. Runway if different from that to which the instrument approach is made. 3. Surface wind. 4. Ceiling and visibility if the reported ceiling at the airport of intended landing is below 1,000 feet or below the highest circling minimum, whichever is greater, or the visibility is less than 3 miles. 5. Altimeter setting for the airport of intended landing. I'm going to an uncontrolled field without weather reporting. How are you going to comply with that paragraph? |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
"SeeAndAvoid" wrote:
One guy called from a phonebooth, needed a clearance, but also time to drive back to the airport (30mins away), get started and go. I believe it's a TERPS requirement that to have an approach you need to have a working and publicly accessable landline phone on the field. Don't know anything about departures, though :-) I once got into a ****ing contest with Verizon (they were probably calling themselves Bell Atlantic back then) when they tore the only public phone out of a small airport around here because it wasn't generating enough revenue. I had gone to call for a clearance and found the booth still there, but wires just hanging out where there used to be a phone. I talked to everybody I could think of (the Public Service Commission, the FSDO, the airport manager, NY Tracon, AOPA, etc). Nobody seemed too worried about it. |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
"SeeAndAvoid" wrote in message link.net... We have some airports that have AWOS, but we don't get any of that info into our computer, but the pilot can receive it. We have a couple that we have no weather reporting, but the pilot can get it from their company on the ground, and they let us know. And theres a couple that MAYBE they can get someone to answer unicom and get the weather. There are only a few left I can think of that have no SIAP, no AWOS, and lucky to have anything living within 20nm of it. Those pilots usually know what they are dealing with way in advance and have done it regularly and cancel way out. They arent going to get a contact approach, those are the ones that will on occasion ask for a cruise clearance, but those are also airports with sometimes no phones and no cellular coverage. In the end it's up to the pilot to get the weather, and if it's not available we have to advise them of that, too. Luckily the weather at those airports are VFR probably 350 days out of the year, but talk about remote. One guy called from a phonebooth, needed a clearance, but also time to drive back to the airport (30mins away), get started and go. A couple have recently worked out private approaches and someone available on the ground associated with the airplane to get them the weather, Lifeguard flights usually, with an employee of the hospital nearby giving them the conditions. What about those fields with SIAPs but no weather reporting at all? |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
In article .net,
SeeAndAvoid wrote: Being called "approach" is about the only real insult, on those occasions I may reply with the name of an airline that may offend them, or call a Citation a twin cessna, etc. That's good to know. I was getting flight following last Sunday and the frequency was dead quiet. I wanted to make a request, but I couldn't remember if I was talking to approach or center so I had to look it up. I wouldn't want to find out what they demote a single to. ;-) -- Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/ |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Report Leaving Assigned Altitude? | John Clonts | Instrument Flight Rules | 81 | March 20th 04 02:34 PM |
Night over water | Stuart King | Instrument Flight Rules | 43 | March 4th 04 01:13 AM |
Completing the Non-precision approach as a Visual Approach | John Clonts | Instrument Flight Rules | 45 | November 20th 03 05:20 AM |
Visual Appr. | Stuart King | Instrument Flight Rules | 15 | September 17th 03 08:36 PM |