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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my AmericanLicense
Any of you folks from across the Pond care to help out?
I'm finding myself spending more time in the UK lately, including weekends. I've flown with a number of different gliding clubs and thoroughly enjoyed myself... so much so that I'm looking in to what it would take to obtain a UK Gliding License. I contacted the BGA, but I was basically told to poke around the BGA Website to find the forms. Well, after 15 mintues of rooting around trying to figure out what applies and what doesn't in my situation, I've given up. Can anyone simplify this for me? Can I simply convert my US ratings (commercial glider with flight instructor, 2,000 hours, 1,000K diplome, etc.) to a UK license or do I need to start from scratch? Any help appreciated. Erik Mann (LS8-18 P3) |
#2
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my AmericanLicense
Erik,
We don't have a licensing system, thus your problem. We did invent something with the licence label, but it was just to satisfy (from memory) the French authorities. It's issued by the BGA, and doesn't meet the formal requirements of the various aviation treaties. Licensing will be introduced in the next few years, but no-one knows whether that will change the current system. You already know what that is, but for other potential visitors it's quite simple: a. Turn up at gliding club. b. Talk to instructor, show log book, possibly show gliding certificates, show copy of your medical (for UK pilots, this is just a general practitioner doctor's certification that you are fit to drive a small truck). c. Undertake whatever check flights the club requires (usually at least one launch if you want to fly the club's gliders). d. Go fly on your own. Your biggest complication might be the medical. If you have a US PPL, then your medical should be fine. I believe that for a US glider pilot licence you have general practitioner doctor's certification as well, so ideally someone at the BGA would be prepared to endorse this as equivalent to the UK certification. Papa3 wrote: Any of you folks from across the Pond care to help out? I'm finding myself spending more time in the UK lately, including weekends. I've flown with a number of different gliding clubs and thoroughly enjoyed myself... so much so that I'm looking in to what it would take to obtain a UK Gliding License. I contacted the BGA, but I was basically told to poke around the BGA Website to find the forms. Well, after 15 mintues of rooting around trying to figure out what applies and what doesn't in my situation, I've given up. Can anyone simplify this for me? Can I simply convert my US ratings (commercial glider with flight instructor, 2,000 hours, 1,000K diplome, etc.) to a UK license or do I need to start from scratch? Any help appreciated. Erik Mann (LS8-18 P3) |
#3
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my American License
Erik,
I normally end up explaining the opposite procedures (UK pilots wanting to fly in the US). I fly at Bicester UK and in the DC area of the USA under similar circumstances. Here's the information at the BGA web site: http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/gliderlicencenotes.pdf and http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/gliderlicence.pdf You're clearly eligible for one (as you have an ICAO compliant glider licence/license/certificate and I assume you have 5h PIC in the last year) but as Chris points out it won't do you much good. You should check carefully on the medical situation. Clearly there is no requirement to hold a medical certificate at all under the FARs to fly gliders. The BGA self regulatory (i.e. sensible and therefore about to be abolished in the name of European harmonisation) regime requires you to declare that you are fit to the standard required to drive a car (or to drive professionally if an instructor) and get a family doctor to sign off that there is nothing in your medical records that says otherwise (to make sure you are being honest). I'm not sure that the BGA will accept a US family doctor's endorsement and a doctor here won't have access to your medical records to be able to make the endorsement. So my recommendation would be to bite the bullet and get a European ("JAA") medical certificate. If you have an FAA medical certificate if ought to be possible to have it validated but I don't know how to do this. I just got my medical examiner to do both at the same time and he charged a nominal amount for the second one. Stop press: I just checked the BGA's "Laws and Rules" and it says "For short term visitors to the UK, a medical certificate valid for gliding in their own country is acceptable, but these other certificates are not acceptable for permanent UK residents" so getting an FAA medical might be more useful. You should look at this download anyway: http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/lawsandrules.pdf If you want to instruct in the UK, that's in principle possible too. Your club may thank you for jumping through the hoops. See the bottom of the page at http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/ins...quirements.htm There are differences to learn. We fly a circuit not a pattern, glider bits are held on with split pins not cotter pins, you'll get a kicking from the Chief Flying Instructor if you pick up a wing drop at the stall with opposite rudder and we fly this really sensible diagonal leg from downwind to base that will scare most airport-trained US pilots senseless (but is actually recommended by the US Soaring Safety Foundation which I suspect of being infiltrated by BGA types). If you want to know more about this, contact me off list and I'll also explain why I *still* haven't converted my CFI(G) to a BGA instructor rating. Have fun and fly safely. Paul Paul Jessop pjessop at theiet dot org At 15:33 08 July 2009, Chris Reed wrote: Erik, We don't have a licensing system, thus your problem. We did invent something with the licence label, but it was just to satisfy (from memory) the French authorities. It's issued by the BGA, and doesn't meet the formal requirements of the various aviation treaties. Licensing will be introduced in the next few years, but no-one knows whether that will change the current system. You already know what that is, but for other potential visitors it's quite simple: a. Turn up at gliding club. b. Talk to instructor, show log book, possibly show gliding certificates, show copy of your medical (for UK pilots, this is just a general practitioner doctor's certification that you are fit to drive a small truck). c. Undertake whatever check flights the club requires (usually at least one launch if you want to fly the club's gliders). d. Go fly on your own. Your biggest complication might be the medical. If you have a US PPL, then your medical should be fine. I believe that for a US glider pilot licence you have general practitioner doctor's certification as well, so ideally someone at the BGA would be prepared to endorse this as equivalent to the UK certification. Papa3 wrote: Any of you folks from across the Pond care to help out? I'm finding myself spending more time in the UK lately, including weekends. I've flown with a number of different gliding clubs and thoroughly enjoyed myself... so much so that I'm looking in to what it would take to obtain a UK Gliding License. I contacted the BGA, but I was basically told to poke around the BGA Website to find the forms. Well, after 15 mintues of rooting around trying to figure out what applies and what doesn't in my situation, I've given up. Can anyone simplify this for me? Can I simply convert my US ratings (commercial glider with flight instructor, 2,000 hours, 1,000K diplome, etc.) to a UK license or do I need to start from scratch? Any help appreciated. Erik Mann (LS8-18 P3) |
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my American License
Erik
Chris has outlined the issues very well. The biggest problem is the medical. Whilst there is no legal requirement for a medical to fly gliders in the UK, the BGA in its wisdom have laid down medical conditions that revolve around the pilots own GP (a PPL medical is accepted) Our insurers now accept these as conditions of flight insurance policies and have refused to pay out when pilots have let the medical lapse and had an accident. In the past, I have spoken to insurance agents about this and the advice was, "If you have US medicals then talk to the insurers of the club you intend to fly at and provide details of your medical, they may accept these and allow you to fly the clubs gliders." (Get confirmation is writing) We only have two or three under writers in the UK so it should not be a major problem and could save money/time/frustration in the long run. Regards Dave Martin. At 15:33 08 July 2009, Chris Reed wrote: Erik, We don't have a licensing system, thus your problem. We did invent something with the licence label, but it was just to satisfy (from memory) the French authorities. It's issued by the BGA, and doesn't meet the formal requirements of the various aviation treaties. Licensing will be introduced in the next few years, but no-one knows whether that will change the current system. You already know what that is, but for other potential visitors it's quite simple: a. Turn up at gliding club. b. Talk to instructor, show log book, possibly show gliding certificates, show copy of your medical (for UK pilots, this is just a general practitioner doctor's certification that you are fit to drive a small truck). c. Undertake whatever check flights the club requires (usually at least one launch if you want to fly the club's gliders). d. Go fly on your own. Your biggest complication might be the medical. If you have a US PPL, then your medical should be fine. I believe that for a US glider pilot licence you have general practitioner doctor's certification as well, so ideally someone at the BGA would be prepared to endorse this as equivalent to the UK certification. Papa3 wrote: Any of you folks from across the Pond care to help out? I'm finding myself spending more time in the UK lately, including weekends. I've flown with a number of different gliding clubs and thoroughly enjoyed myself... so much so that I'm looking in to what it would take to obtain a UK Gliding License. I contacted the BGA, but I was basically told to poke around the BGA Website to find the forms. Well, after 15 mintues of rooting around trying to figure out what applies and what doesn't in my situation, I've given up. Can anyone simplify this for me? Can I simply convert my US ratings (commercial glider with flight instructor, 2,000 hours, 1,000K diplome, etc.) to a UK license or do I need to start from scratch? Any help appreciated. Erik Mann (LS8-18 P3) |
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my AmericanLicense
Paul Jessop wrote:
... we fly this really sensible diagonal leg from downwind to base that will scare most airport-trained US pilots senseless I remember that the other way round - flying in the US soon after I went solo in the UK and hearing the cries of alarm from the back seat as I cut off the nice square corner of the circuit at *exactly* 45 degrees (as I said, I'd only just gone solo). We have one or two other tricks up our sleeve for foreigners - for example, we turn left off aerotow not right. For a US visitor I'd suggest talking the UK instructor through your flight before launching would be a good idea, so as to identify these cultural differences before takeoff. As another example, Houston (where I flew in the US) began all circuits at 1000ft agl over a particular ground feature. At my UK flatland club we'd still be scratching at that height and start the circuit around 700ft from an appropriate point, maybe joining the circuit half way down the downwind leg. Fortunately I'd been briefed on that beforehand, otherwise I'd not have got as far as introducing Houston to the British diagonal. Clubs based in the hills have modified circuit procedures to deal with curlover in particular wind directions, but they tend to brief on those anyway because UK flatlanders like me would otherwise get into trouble. |
#6
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my AmericanLicense
On Jul 8, 11:45*am, Paul Jessop wrote:
Here's the information at the BGA web site: http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/gliderlicencenotes.pdf that ref includes the following: "VALIDITY This licence is only valid if the holder has completed 5 hours P1 in gliders during the previous 12 months. In order to maintain validity the holder must complete 5 hours P1 every twelve months and have this recorded in a log book by an authorised instructor." Do solo UK pilots really have to have their log entries endorsed by an authorized instructor? In US no instructor, or any other person, is required to approve a licenced pilot's P1 log entries. In fact I don't even maintain a paper gliding log book anymore. All my flights are logged in a computer database and can be substantiated by logger files. I returned to UK in 1982 after getting a US licence and within a few weeks I was towing and intructing at my local UK club. I was approved as an assistant instructor based on my FAA instructor certificate and had started training for full cat when I got tired of watching the rain and fled back to US. It may have been easier because I was a Brit, but it sounds like it would be harder to do that now. Andy |
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my AmericanLicense
On Jul 8, 11:45*am, Paul Jessop wrote:
You're clearly eligible for one (as you have an ICAO compliant glider licence/license/certificate and I assume you have 5h PIC in the last year) There may be a small catch here. It is my understanding that most US pilot certificates are not ICAO compliant since they do not include the statement that the pilot is proficient in English. New certificates include the endorsement. "Background: Effective March 5, 2008, ICAO Annex 1 (Personnel Licensing) standards require that all private, commercial or ATPs as well as FEs and flight navigators operating internationally as required crewmembers of an airplane or helicopter have an airman certificate with an endorsement of language proficiency. In the case of persons holding a U.S. airman certificate, the language proficiency endorsement will state “English Proficient” So Papa3 you may need to get a new FAA certificate before you try to use it as a basis for getting a BGA certificate. Andy |
#8
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my American License
The law governing the solo flying of gliders in the UK is very simple, you
have to be over 16 to do it. That is it, that is all the law says. The BGA rules have been correctly stated but from a legal point of view you do not need a licence, certificate or indeed medical. I would stongly recommend flying from a BGA site but there are locations where gliders are flown outside the BGA and those are not bound by the BGA rules. The BGA rules on medicals are that if your health enables you to hold a current driving licence then you can fly solo. If you wish to instruct then you need to fit the requirements to drive a lorry, medical requirements that is. The BGA rules say that your medical practitioner must sign the relevant form which can be downloaded from the BGA website, nowhere does it say that your medical practitioner has to be in the UK so get the form signed by your doctor in the US and that complies with the rules. I have little doubt that some jobsworth will try and find a reason why it is not acceptable but it does comply with the stated rules. To get to real basics you have to find someone who is prepared to let you fly their glider to fly solo. To instruct, well, you have to find someone who is prepared to let you instruct in their glider. The medical requirements for the above, you are expected to be able to walk to and from the glider unaided, at the appropriate times but that is not absolutely essential. |
#9
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my American License
Andy wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:45*am, Paul Jessop wrote: You're clearly eligible for one (as you have an ICAO compliant glider licence/license/certificate and I assume you have 5h PIC in the last year ) There may be a small catch here. It is my understanding that most US pilot certificates are not ICAO compliant since they do not include the statement that the pilot is proficient in English. New certificates include the endorsement. Ahem - that appears to be wrong - here's what an ICAO FAQ says: "Glider and free balloon pilots and flight engineers: There is no language proficiency Standard applicable to these categories of personnel. However, Annex 1, Chapter 1, paragraph 1.2.9.3 contains a Recommendation that reads: "Flight engineers, glider and free balloon pilots should have the ability to speak and understand the language used for radiotelephony communications." From: http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm "Should" isn't "must" unless the state wishes to make it so. "Background: Effective March 5, 2008, ICAO Annex 1 (Personnel Licensing) standards require that all private, commercial or ATPs as well as FEs and flight navigators operating internationally as required crewmembers of an airplane or helicopter have an airman certificate with an endorsement of language proficiency. In the case of persons holding a U.S. airman certificate, the language proficiency endorsement will state “English Proficient” As noted in the FAQ I quoted from, the above quoted paragraph isn't applicable to glider pilots (note it only mentions airplane and helicopter pilots - so English language proficiency for pilots of gliders, balloons, airships, powered lift, ornithopters, and anti-gravity UFOs from Mars doesn't appear to be applicable.) |
#10
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Help. Obtaining a UK Gliding License on the basis of my American License
In article Andy writes:
On Jul 8, 11:45=A0am, Paul Jessop wrote: You're clearly eligible for one (as you have an ICAO compliant glider licence/license/certificate and I assume you have 5h PIC in the last year= ) There may be a small catch here. It is my understanding that most US pilot certificates are not ICAO compliant since they do not include the statement that the pilot is proficient in English. New certificates include the endorsement. "Background: Effective March 5, 2008, ICAO Annex 1 (Personnel Licensing) standards require that all private, commercial or ATPs as well as FEs and flight navigators operating internationally as required crewmembers of an airplane or helicopter have an airman certificate with an endorsement of language proficiency. In the case of persons holding a U.S. airman certificate, the language proficiency endorsement will state =93English Proficient=94 So Papa3 you may need to get a new FAA certificate before you try to use it as a basis for getting a BGA certificate. Andy Probably not. From http://www.luchtzak.be/forums/viewto...p?f=14&t=38606 Effective March 5, 2008, ICAO Annex 1 (Personnel Licensing) standards require that all private, commercial or ATPs as well as FEs and flight navigators operating internationally as required crewmembers of an airplane or helicopter have an airman certificate with an endorsement of language proficiency. In the case of persons holding a U.S. airman certificate, the language proficiency endorsement will state ?English Proficient?. On October 26, 2007, ICAO published State Letter AN 12/44.6-07/68 regarding Assembly - Resolution A36-11- Proficiency in the English Language Used for Radiotelephony, which automatically delays implementation up until March 5, 2011 for those countries notifying ICAO. As such, the U.S. has notified ICAO that it file a difference that will extend the U.S. compliance date until March 5, 2009 in order to provide sufficient time for all affected U.S. airman certificate holder to comply with the ICAO Language Proficiency airman certificate endorsement requirements. Since we are talking about gliders, not airplanes or helicopters, the requirement would appear not to apply. Further, since notification has been made to the ICAO, you would have until March 5, 2009 for international operations in airplanes and helicopters. If the operation were fully within the UK, in a UK registered aircraft, it would seem to not be an international operation, so the requirement probably would not apply there, anyway. Alan |
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