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#11
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
At 09:22 12 June 2009, Bruce wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Winglets, disk brake and a single pece cockpit - a little wing profiling and you have a very nice sailplane for a fraction of the cost of one (15m) with maybe 3% better performance... A new 18m ship would cost me five times the investment for maybe 10% more L/D. If you just want to have fun then it is a poor investment. The locally developed modification with polyhedral wingtips and winglets seems to narrow that performance gap even further. So that is a probable change when time and money allow. Mine has already had a complete cosmetic going over and wing profile - needs some work to pretty the cockpit up and then she is as good as new. Lovely glider as she is - But that canopy has to go. Jonathon May wrote: In England Don Austin has put a one-piece canopy on a kestrel,it looks like a next generation ship,he dosen't know when to stop though, he also put suspension,a disc brake and wing tips. At 18:46 11 June 2009, Bruce wrote: JS wrote: Whilst you're waiting for the fix from Streifeneder, try different flap settings on tow. Jim Now there's a lateral suggestion. I shall take your suggestion and try it - but I still want the new canopy. Bruce As to the mods done on my Kestrel 19 I have fitted a Vega Canopy to it as I watched the Vega Mould being made and they used an uncut Kestrel Canopy for the front of the Vega. I liked the simple hinging arrangement used by DG so I used this method. The winglets I fitted were on the style of Shemp Hirth and measurably improve the roll rate and I believe improves the best glide angle. The BGA permitted the fitting ofwnglets to any gider that can have its wings extended. ie 20 Meter Kestrel.I have also fitted two ASW 20's with winglets.The easy way to do this is to modify the stub tips. Kestrels are too heavy for a drum brake but a M/Cycle front disk brake can be obtained complete with Brake Lever pipe and reservoir quite easilly.The standard Glider wheel with disk is the one I used. It seemed a shame not to fit Rubber springs to the U/C when it was reassembled so I did. Anyone who would like a picture is welcome. Don Austin |
#12
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
At 09:22 12 June 2009, Bruce wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Winglets, disk brake and a single pece cockpit - a little wing profiling and you have a very nice sailplane for a fraction of the cost of one (15m) with maybe 3% better performance... A new 18m ship would cost me five times the investment for maybe 10% more L/D. If you just want to have fun then it is a poor investment. The locally developed modification with polyhedral wingtips and winglets seems to narrow that performance gap even further. So that is a probable change when time and money allow. Mine has already had a complete cosmetic going over and wing profile - needs some work to pretty the cockpit up and then she is as good as new. Lovely glider as she is - But that canopy has to go. Jonathon May wrote: In England Don Austin has put a one-piece canopy on a kestrel,it looks like a next generation ship,he dosen't know when to stop though, he also put suspension,a disc brake and wing tips. At 18:46 11 June 2009, Bruce wrote: JS wrote: Whilst you're waiting for the fix from Streifeneder, try different flap settings on tow. Jim Now there's a lateral suggestion. I shall take your suggestion and try it - but I still want the new canopy. Bruce As to the mods done on my Kestrel 19 I have fitted a Vega Canopy to it as I watched the Vega Mould being made and they used an uncut Kestrel Canopy for the front of the Vega. I liked the simple hinging arrangement used by DG so I used this method. The winglets I fitted were on the style of Shemp Hirth and measurably improve the roll rate and I believe improves the best glide angle. The BGA permitted the fitting ofwnglets to any gider that can have its wings extended. ie 20 Meter Kestrel.I have also fitted two ASW 20's with winglets.The easy way to do this is to modify the stub tips. Kestrels are too heavy for a drum brake but a M/Cycle front disk brake can be obtained complete with Brake Lever pipe and reservoir quite easilly.The standard Glider wheel with disk is the one I used. It seemed a shame not to fit Rubber springs to the U/C when it was reassembled so I did. Anyone who would like a picture is welcome. Don Austin |
#13
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
Don:
I would like a photo and the specifications of the M/C disc brake you used. I have just purchased a Kestrel and would like to make this modification. Fred.lasor AT gmail.com |
#14
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
At 21:45 11 June 2009, Jonathon May wrote:
In England Don Austin has put a one-piece canopy on a kestrel,it looks like a next generation ship,he dosen't know when to stop though, he also put suspension,a disc brake and wing tips. At 18:46 11 June 2009, Bruce wrote: JS wrote: Whilst you're waiting for the fix from Streifeneder, try different flap settings on tow. Jim Now there's a lateral suggestion. I shall take your suggestion and try it - but I still want the new canopy. Bruce Take care with the flap setting, the limit speeds for positive flap are very restrictive but one stage of positive does allow you to see the tug. |
#15
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
At 13:31 12 June 2009, jsbrake wrote:
But wouldn't putting winglets on the bird invalidate the Type Certicate? I've been toying with the idea of the double-panel spoiler modification, but I've been told that my TC would be gone and I'd be in the "owner maintenance" category. I'm not sure that that's a good idea. I can understand upgrading the brakes and canopy not interfering with the TC, but wouldn't the winglets be a structural change, and thereby invalidate the TC? As an aside, my TC states that my Kestrel must be "all white", with blue-grey (or similar light) registration marks. I understand that it was written in the early days of FRP, but would it be allowable now to put bright red anti-collision accents on the extremities? There is an official double paddle mod for the airbrakes, it was held on Gliderpilot.net for a long while. It is a very simple mod. |
#16
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
"Don Johnstone" wrote in message . com... At 13:31 12 June 2009, jsbrake wrote: But wouldn't putting winglets on the bird invalidate the Type Certicate? I've been toying with the idea of the double-panel spoiler modification, but I've been told that my TC would be gone and I'd be in the "owner maintenance" category. I'm not sure that that's a good idea. I can understand upgrading the brakes and canopy not interfering with the TC, but wouldn't the winglets be a structural change, and thereby invalidate the TC? As an aside, my TC states that my Kestrel must be "all white", with blue-grey (or similar light) registration marks. I understand that it was written in the early days of FRP, but would it be allowable now to put bright red anti-collision accents on the extremities? There is an official double paddle mod for the airbrakes, it was held on Gliderpilot.net for a long while. It is a very simple mod. Mod is on the Kestrel Yahoo group. The word is that all it does is change the noise. Landing flap and good speed control is all that's needed. ( Unless you are out to impress, when the use of the tail chute looks coooool ) |
#17
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
Kestrels are too heavy for a drum brake but a M/Cycle front disk brake can
be obtained complete with Brake Lever pipe and reservoir quite easilly.The standard Glider wheel with disk is the one I used. It seemed a shame not to fit Rubber springs to the U/C when it was reassembled so I did. Anyone who would like a picture is welcome. Don Austin Hi Don, I would very much appreciate to receive pictures and specs for the wheel brake and U/C mods you made. My Glasfügel 17m Kestrel (118) has its wheel brake lever under the stick. Is it the same wit the T59D´s? Did you mod that actuating element, too? Greetings from Germany Jürgen |
#18
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
My name is Stephen, and recently purchased a Kestrel T59D in great shape. The Kestrel's handicap (Kestrel .89 versus Discuss .93) being in the neighborhood of more expensive ($250,000) aircraft--seems like a pretty good bet to put money into the old girl--albeit a 50 year old glass ship.
The bird is in amazing shape, yet needs some love in certain areas. Being nearly seven feet tall as a pilot... options are to cut a hole in the bottom of the aircraft--which negates need for new brakes. Of course, I could opt for one of those new-fangled, sexy looking single canopies with a six inch larger bubble. Yeah, yeah, that is the ticket... Look cooler, go faster, and receive small increase in performance. Mmmmm... That is probably the better choice. My hit list is simple... 1) Trailer gets new Timbren Axle-less axles. A two tone paint job--gray lower, white upper--with red seperation stripe and alloy designer rims. Electric brake upgrade, with new radial tires. Inside will be painted, scabs and wounds from years of use fiberglassed over, and mounting hardware updated. (About $3000 of love to make a 36 foot long viable and attractive for competition.) 2) Canopy modification... Going to reproduce Don Austins work for canopy. Would love to find that guy and actually ship my aircraft to him for design changes and review. The canopy is the biggest potential loss of L/D on the Kestrel--with any leak of air pressure devastating the laminar flow around the nose to wing section. (Planning on $4000 of love, could go up to $6000 depending on cost of DG frame and hinge costs) 3) Wingtips... Have research done on benefits and size required. Again, mimicking Don Austins work in England, with small tweaks because of research values found to be optimal. Really curious as to the reality of theoretic values vs real world application of that theory in Don Austins bird--he loves the darn thing, so it must be exceptional. (Planning on $6000 to $8000 of love on winglets. Improving L/D by 4--making former 44:1 closer to 48:1 with windshield mods, turbulators, and wingtips.) 4) Brakes and suspension... Improved brakes... Why improve brakes on a plane that is known to spin on the ground if you manage to fly it in hot? Because, the standard brakes are just too damn ineffective. Good speed control is important in any plane--add sixty five feet of wingspan and you have a wild bronking buck on your hands. The damned thing is designed to fly, and it wants to. The suspension will absorb the more aggressive landings, instead of my rumpus--connected--to--me (medical term, yeah.) Again, stealing as much as Don Austin will let me from his experiences... Thinking maybe I should let him do all the work. If only I could find him. Plus the cost and hassle of shipping the bird... Really looking for a talented shop in the United States that is adventurous and not outrageous in price tag. I will be the first to admit, I will have $30,000 into my sailplane... It will however run circles around others at competition, with the competitors spending $300,000 to arrive at the same place my $30,000 took. Finish lines never lie... Anyone know Donald Austin? Tell him I am going to need his help to compete in the 2020 year. Personal Best to all you dedicated fliers out there, Stephen |
#19
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
The first thing you need to do if you want a 19m go well is check the profile accuracy, Slingsby never managed to get it as good as the Germans. That’s why the 10 gained only one L/D point after adding 2 meters. Striefeneder used to do the canopy mod, but when I asked them said it was too expensive to be worthwhile, I’ve got a photo somewhere of one that was done, and it looks great. It won’t give you any better performance though.
In the UK several have been legally modified to 20M span. A slingsby Vega canopy fits exactly, as the front was from the Kestrel. Just a canopy frame and bubble without labour will be well more than you have budgeted. |
#20
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Kestrel DG200 canopy mod.
At 21:29 15 November 2019, Charlie Quebec wrote:
The first thing you need to do if you want a 19m go well is check the profi= le accuracy, Slingsby never managed to get it as good as the Germans. That= =E2=80=99s why the 10 gained only one L/D point after adding 2 meters. Stri= efeneder used to do the canopy mod, but when I asked them said it was too e= xpensive to be worthwhile, I=E2=80=99ve got a photo somewhere of one that w= as done, and it looks great. It won=E2=80=99t give you any better performan= ce though. In the UK several have been legally modified to 20M span. A slingsby Vega c= anopy fits exactly, as the front was from the Kestrel. Just a canopy frame = and bubble without labour will be well more than you have budgeted. Don is starting to show his 80+years,I have not seen him at the gliding club this year. |
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