See and avoid

While possibly a fair assumption, "GA" isn't mentioned in either my post or
the original post.


"Dale" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bill Denton" wrote:

Everybody talking about "looking at the wings" needs to rethink their
advice.

You can see an entire airplane much farther away than you can
distinguish
the wings.

If he's so far away that you can't determine what he's doing it's likely
the other traffic isn't a factor...at least not at the speeds of most GA
aircraft.

Rely on relative motion. If the dot isn't moving relative to your
viewpoint, you're on a collision course.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Bill Denton wrote:

Reread my post; I wasn't discussing turn-signals.

The post to which you were replying asked why we don't have turn signals on
planes. That's the entire point of the discussion. So, yes, you WERE discussing
turn signals.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

No, I was replying to your first post and the one from Paul Tomblin, both of
which were discussing the position of the wings, and neither of which
discussed turn signals other than in reference to the original post.


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Bill Denton wrote:

Reread my post; I wasn't discussing turn-signals.

The post to which you were replying asked why we don't have turn signals
on
planes. That's the entire point of the discussion. So, yes, you WERE
discussing
turn signals.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that
would
not yield to the tongue.

Bill Denton wrote:

No, I was replying to your first post and the one from Paul Tomblin, both of
which were discussing the position of the wings, and neither of which
discussed turn signals other than in reference to the original post.

Then you can't read. From my post

Why do light aircraft do not have turning indicators?

'Cause they don't need them.

I went on to say that that's because you can see the wings tilt, indicating a
turn.

Just remember - left wing goes down, probably turning left. Right wing goes down,
probably turning right.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

As I stated: "neither of which discussed turn signals other than in
reference to the original post".

As I stated in my original post: "Everybody talking about "looking at the
wings" needs to rethink their
advice". I think that makes it pretty clear what I am responding to.

If you want to play these silly-ass games for the rest of the day, knock
yourself out. I've seen you do it before. I long ago determined that you are
one of those people who will "argue with a fence post", as we say in the
South. So, do whatever you wish; my posts are there and I think everyone
here is quite able to understand them, though some may choose not to do so.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Bill Denton wrote:

No, I was replying to your first post and the one from Paul Tomblin,
both of
which were discussing the position of the wings, and neither of which
discussed turn signals other than in reference to the original post.

Then you can't read. From my post

Why do light aircraft do not have turning indicators?

'Cause they don't need them.

I went on to say that that's because you can see the wings tilt,
indicating a
turn.

Just remember - left wing goes down, probably turning left. Right wing
goes down,
probably turning right.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that
would
not yield to the tongue.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Rely on relative motion. If the dot isn't moving relative to your
viewpoint, you're on a collision course.

Not necessarily. The dot could be moving directly away from you.

That's still a collision course. It will just take a lot longer (and a lot
more fuel) for you to eventually collide). You'll either catch up, or the
other aircraft will eventually fly all the way around the world and catch up
with you.

(Kees Mies) wrote in message . com...
Hi All,

Just wondering.
Why do light aircraft do not have turning indicators?
The see-and-avoid concept has its shortcomings, but I have sometimes more
problems with see-and-what-is-he/she-upto??????

Because if you're close enough to see turn signals, you're way too
close to the other plane! Cars travel a few feet apart. 1/4 mile is
very close for an airplane.

-Malcolm Teas

"Dale" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bill Denton" wrote:

Everybody talking about "looking at the wings" needs to rethink their
advice.

You can see an entire airplane much farther away than you can
distinguish
the wings.

If he's so far away that you can't determine what he's doing it's likely
the other traffic isn't a factor...at least not at the speeds of most GA
aircraft.

Rely on relative motion. If the dot isn't moving relative to your
viewpoint, you're on a collision course.

Only if the dot gets bigger.


--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...
While possibly a fair assumption, "GA" isn't mentioned in either my post
or
the original post.

The original post said _light_ aircraft and see and avoid type flight.
Doubt he was talking about 747s on parade into or out of ORD.

Bill Denton wrote:

You can see an entire airplane much farther away than you can distinguish
the wings.

So? The OP asked about turn signals. Wings may not be visible from
infinite distance, but they work better than the turn signals proposed by
the OP. If you've a better suggestion, let's hear it.

If not, then the advice given about wings serving the same purpose at a
greater distance remains the best answer to the OP's "why no turn signals"
question.

The headings of both yours and the other aircraft affect your ability to
distinguish the wings.

True, but that's known and useful. For example, I saw an airplane today
with the wings "missing". But that told me where they were (directly
before and after the plane in my line of sight), and that told me the
plane's attitude.

This would also be true about turn signals too, BTW, but without the same
utility of the lack of visibility. For example, if I cannot see the signal
on the far side, I cannot deduce whether or not it is on.

- Andrew