Looking for a CFIG

What the heck. I was simply offering two solutions to the original
poster in Kansas City: 1.) Sponsor the CFI training of a motivated
club member or 2.) seek out an Airplane CFI willing to add-on the
glider category.

Whether Diamond Badge pilots make better pre-solo instructors than
Airplane CFI's adding the glider rating would be a long and interesting
debate. I won't join that debate, because I am willing to help anyone
become a glider pilot / instructor.

What I find very interesting is that most of our top racing / record
pilots in the USA are not active instructors. Overseas, most racing
pilots are instructors, possibly because of their strong club systems.

Anyone who desires to become a glider instructor should be encouraged
and mentored. It is challenging and rewarding, perhaps more than
earning a badge.

Let's elevate the CFI to a level as high as "Diamond Pilot". Our CFI's
deserve to be acknowledged and admired for their ability to share
knowledge.

Burt Compton
Master CFI / FAA DPE
Marfa, west Texas

wrote:
Let's elevate the CFI to a level as high as "Diamond Pilot". Our CFI's
deserve to be acknowledged and admired for their ability to share
knowledge.

Burt Compton
Master CFI / FAA DPE
Marfa, west Texas
================================================== ========================
BRAVO BURT!! and dead on along with Mark Lennox's remarks.

A few years back, I joined a club as that was the only option in the
new area after having only commercial operation experiences. The club
routinely protested about not having enough instructors. I lost
interest (and later moved away) after months of delay in completing my
club instructor qualification. No one could ever produce what the
syllabus or standards for that check was though.

At that time, I had been selected to become a DPE prior to my move to
the new location, and had years of experience in gliders and airplanes.
I can only guess it was not enough. They probably still have trouble
keeping CFI's.

Terry Claussen
Same stuff as Burt
Estrella, AZ

Terry wrote:
wrote:
Let's elevate the CFI to a level as high as "Diamond Pilot". Our CFI's
deserve to be acknowledged and admired for their ability to share
knowledge.

Burt Compton
Master CFI / FAA DPE
Marfa, west Texas
================================================== ========================
BRAVO BURT!! and dead on along with Mark Lennox's remarks.

A few years back, I joined a club as that was the only option in the
new area after having only commercial operation experiences. The club
routinely protested about not having enough instructors. I lost
interest (and later moved away) after months of delay in completing my
club instructor qualification. No one could ever produce what the
syllabus or standards for that check was though.

At that time, I had been selected to become a DPE prior to my move to
the new location, and had years of experience in gliders and airplanes.
I can only guess it was not enough. They probably still have trouble
keeping CFI's.

Terry Claussen
Same stuff as Burt
Estrella, AZ

Roger Kelly,

I am a CFI-G visiting in town for a couple of days. I have tried to
find you in the phone book and in the SSA membership file. No luck.
Send me a private email.

wrote:
What the heck. I was simply offering two solutions to the original
poster in Kansas City: 1.) Sponsor the CFI training of a motivated
club member or 2.) seek out an Airplane CFI willing to add-on the
glider category.

Whether Diamond Badge pilots make better pre-solo instructors than
Airplane CFI's adding the glider rating would be a long and interesting
debate. I won't join that debate, because I am willing to help anyone
become a glider pilot / instructor.

What I find very interesting is that most of our top racing / record
pilots in the USA are not active instructors. Overseas, most racing
pilots are instructors, possibly because of their strong club systems.

Anyone who desires to become a glider instructor should be encouraged
and mentored. It is challenging and rewarding, perhaps more than
earning a badge.

Let's elevate the CFI to a level as high as "Diamond Pilot". Our CFI's
deserve to be acknowledged and admired for their ability to share
knowledge.

Burt Compton
Master CFI / FAA DPE
Marfa, west Texas



Burt is very much on point.
Original poster points out a real problem. In their situation, if the
did have an egg(potential instructor candidate), they have no one to
hatch it(experienced CFI/mentor/etc). There is a world of difference
between the normal primary/advanced instuction most CFIG's do and
preparing a candidate for CFIG.
I agree it is much easier to teach a good instructor soaring than it is
to teach a good soaring pilot instructing.
It is true that the best glider instructors have a great depth in
soaring.
All this said, In my experience, the very best way is to have the CFIG
candidate spend the required time with a person like Burt, or Terry, or
other who does many CFIG ratings and has a good syllabus for this
program. It will be accomplished in a fraction of the time, to a high
standard, with no unneeded aggravation.
Sadly, you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of places
where this can be done here in the US.

Hank Nixon UH
32 year CFIG
100% candidate pass rate
US national champion
World team member

There is a world of difference
between the normal primary/advanced instuction most CFIG's do and
preparing a candidate for CFIG.

That's awfully self-congratulatory. Also not true.

Preparing a candidate for the CFIG is really quite easy. I know at
least a couple of CFIG's who prepared students for the CFIG in just a
few flights and had the students breeze right through the checkride -
when in every case both student and instructor had less than 100 hours
in gliders and minimal (in one case NO) XC experience. And in one case
I was the student, and in another the instructor. The CFIG is a very
easy ticket to get. Don't pretend it's some major achievement - it's
not. It's significantly less of an achievement (in terms of required
effort, preparation, and skill) than the silver distance.

Of course there is a big difference between simply being a CFIG and
being a good teacher of soaring. The latter requires you to be both a
good soaring pilot and a good teacher. Such individuals are very rare.
I have no idea how you would go about creating one intentionally. I
am quite certain you're not going to do it quickly. It takes years to
become a good teacher. It also takes years to become a good soaring
pilot. Neither process can be effectively rushed.

But if you just need a CFIG, all you need is another CFIG, a tow plane
and tow pilot, a two seat glider, and a pilot with a couple hundred
hours (of which only a couple dozen need be in gliders). It will take
a couple of weekends at most, and that's if your glider pilot lacks a
commercial glider ticket. The most difficult and time-consuming part
will be getting a glider-qualified FAA inspector to fly with the guy if
he isn't already a power CFI.

I agree it is much easier to teach a good instructor soaring than it is
to teach a good soaring pilot instructing.

I think that's a fairly meaningless statement. The skill sets required
of a good instructor are very different from those required of a good
soaring pilot, and different people learn different things at different
rates. Everything depends on what you consider an adequate minimum
standard. If you decide that a glider instructor needs to be a
spectacular teacher but can be an indifferent soaring pilot, then of
course you are right. On the other hand, if you consider the FAA
standard (passing the required tests) an adequate test of teaching
ability, but would expect the instructor to have demonstrated at least
the minimum competence in soaring that the silver distance represents,
you are certainly wrong. It would take a lot less time and effort to
teach an experienced glider pilot to effortlessly pass a CFIG ride than
it would take to teach an experienced power CFI to safely fly his
silver distance.

All this said, In my experience, the very best way is to have the CFIG
candidate spend the required time with a person like Burt, or Terry, or
other who does many CFIG ratings and has a good syllabus for this
program. It will be accomplished in a fraction of the time

Compared to what? If you're comparing to what typically happens at a
club, I agree with you. I worked on my commercial (never mind CFIG)
for months at my club. Never really made any progress. Some of the
instructors were excellent, some were marginal, but the worst part was
no two were in agreement on what I needed to do and there was no
continuity to my training. Eventually I gave up, went to a commercial
operation - and in one day I was ready. After I took my commercial, I
went straight to my CFIG - and that was also done in one day. This was
at a local commercial operation, with an instructor who had less than
50 hours in gliders and had never flown XC.

to a high standard

A high standard of what? Instructional ability? You're not going to
develop that in days or even weeks.
Soaring ability? Same problem. The truth is, any sort of offsite,
intensive course can only be effective at teaching maneuvers - not the
'soft' skills that separate a good teacher from someone going through
the motions or the air awareness that allows a seasoned XC pilot to do
200km while the novice counts himself lucky to have done 50.

Sadly, you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of places
where this can be done here in the US.

I don't see why it's sad. I don't really see the demand either. Most
people have very limited vacation time in the US - such a course would
need to be fairly short (no more than two weeks at the very, very most
- and really it needs to be one week for broad appeal) and with that
limitation, it's not really possible to do anything more than
preparation for the test. Since the test is very easy, there's no
great reason to prepare with a specialist.

The shortage of CFIG's that all clubs seem to experience has nothing to
do with the difficulty of becoming one, and everything to do with the
fact that it's just not an attractive proposition. Everyone always
points to the huge numbers of CFI's in power, but that's not at all the
same thing. If it were not for the kids who need to build time to go
to the airlines, there would be a shortage of power CFI's as well.
It's hard work, takes a lot of time, pays little, and is a liability
headache. Only those of us who truly love to teach will do it all.
There's precious little a club can offer as incentive, and thus it
never ceases to amaze me how many clubs actually offer huge
disincentives (more duty days than others, requirement to fly with
anyone who asks, etc.).

Michael

I'd be interested to have Terry or Burt, or other long time instructors
weigh in on your opinions.
Having done this many times, I can not imagine how you can properly
prepare a candidate for instructing( notice I did not say passing the
practical test) in the time you describe.
The difference, in my view, is the experience needed to evaluate the
candidate and tailor the training program to the candidate's situation.

As to the attractivness of the instructing situation, those that do it
get rewards that might mean little to some folks but are big to some of
us.
Examples- the look on a 14 year olds face after first solo, the call
that your student just won his or her first race, the call that "I just
made captain at my airline, I just got my CFIG, I just got into the Air
Force, I just did my Silver, Gold, Diamond.
I thought it was abig deal 32 years ago and still think it is today.
Sorry to be excessively self congratulatory, intent was to provide
background of experience to support my opinions.
UH

Jun 10, 8:57 am show options

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
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Date: 10 Jun 2005 05:57:35 -0700
Local: Fri,Jun 10 2005 8:57 am
Subject: Looking for a CFIG
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I'd be interested to have Terry or Burt, or other long time instructors
weigh in on your opinions.
Having done this many times, I can not imagine how you can properly
prepare a candidate for instructing( notice I did not say passing the
practical test) in the time you describe.

Hank, I'd weigh in once here, except I'm not sure what point Michael is
trying to make - or if just wants to start a lengthy debate how long it
takes to help a CFIG candidate meet the challenge. I'm just too busy
at Marfa, training CFIG's, to write many long replies. Takes time to
mentor a CFIG, but I can help most candidates reach their goal, if they
are willing to make the commitment. And then there is the CFI renewal
evey 24 months. If they attend a glider-specific course such as the
Soaring Safety Foundation Flight Instructor Renewal Clinics (FIRC) or
actually fly with a glider examiner, then they are way ahead.
Renewing with the FSDO based on familiarity is less than ideal.

You can check the schedule of SSF glider-specific FIRC's at
www.soaringsafety.org

A kid I soloed at age 14 will report to the USAF Academy this month.
Yep, I'm proud.

As far as asking CFI's to do some extra work around the hangar, I've
noticed that those CFI's that who have been owners of other businesses
don't have a problem with helping out with the meet & greet, cleaning a
canopy, wiping the bugs off the leading edge of the glider wings, etc.
It's the self-employed attitude. If it needs to be done, then the
self-employed folks get to it. They see the big picture.

I also pay my CFI's $30./hour (ground & flight instruction) to prepare
a candidate for my checkride. I'll make some money from the tows and
glider rentals. When I put the word out on the internet for "guest
instructors" at Marfa on certain dates, I get a lot of replies.

'Nuff talkin'. Gotta go fly now.

Y'all come visit west Texas to soar, and maybe learn something new.

Burt Compton
Marfa Gliders, west Texas
www.flygliders.com

Having done this many times, I can not imagine how you can properly
prepare a candidate for instructing( notice I did not say passing the
practical test) in the time you describe.

I can't. It can't be done in a weekend. Or a week. Or a month.
Takes much longer - takes consistent development and mentoring over the
course of years. And that's my point - you're either turning out a
credible instructor, or you're just preparing somoene to take the test.
If your involvement is measured in anything less than years, it's the
latter. So why worry about quality? It's either there to begin with
(meaning the candidate is already a credible teacher when you get him)
or it's not. He'll pass the test either way.

The difference, in my view, is the experience needed to evaluate the
candidate and tailor the training program to the candidate's situation.

Evaluating a candidate's teaching ability is easy. Primary students
can do that effectively - they just can't evaluate the subject matter
expertise (since they don't know the subject matter). Some people are
good teachers, some are not. You can't take someone who is not and
make him into someone who is in a a few weeks time.

I know people who have gone off to two week CFI schools taught by
people who churn out many CFI's - both glider and power. The result is
always the same. They all come back with a ticket. Those who could
teach before still can, and those who couldn't still can't.

I've also known some people who learned to instruct - but that was
always in the local area, by long term mentoring.

Michael

Michael wrote:
And that's my point - you're either turning out a
credible instructor, or you're just preparing somoene to take the test.
If your involvement is measured in anything less than years, it's the
latter. So why worry about quality? It's either there to begin with
(meaning the candidate is already a credible teacher when you get him)
or it's not. He'll pass the test either way.
UH wrote:
The difference, in my view, is the experience needed to evaluate the
candidate and tailor the training program to the candidate's situation.
================================================== ==================
Since I am not authorized to administer initial CFI checkrides, I
cannot speak directly to how to conduct that test. I have given a lot
of thought as to the conduct of a CFI who wishes to add the Glider to
his certificate. As always, the answer is in plain sight in the
PTS--the examiner is charged with evaluating whether the applicant can
do all of the selected manuevers and give EFFECTIVE instruction,
otherwise it is a fail.

The syllabus I use in conducting CFI training is individually tailored.
I expect that an additional rating CFI would have a baseline to add to
while an initial instructor would not. In either case I spend much,
much more time on the ground discussing teaching, mentoring, evaluating
and the absolute necessity of being a positive example AT ALL TIMES.
After all, one cannot teach an intricate pre-flight inspection to a
student, then hop into a waiting ship a moment later without causing a
disconnect in the student's mind about the importance of what was just
taught.

The assertion earlier that contest or diamond badge pilots are the best
instructors would not stand the scrutiny of a visit to the local field
on a race day. In many cases the behaviors exhibited in judgement,
knowledge and temperment are polar opposites to the requirements of
good flight instruction.

Terry

As always, the answer is in plain sight in the
PTS--the examiner is charged with evaluating whether the applicant can
do all of the selected manuevers and give EFFECTIVE instruction,
otherwise it is a fail.

I think the assertion that a CFI checkride (initial or add-on)
effectively evaluates the ability to instruct will not withstand close
scrutiny. Further, anyone who has flown with a variety of instructors
will know this is true - many of them can't really teach. In power,
the overwhelming majority can't teach - their reasons for becoming
CFI's have to do with airline career aspirations, and while most do try
to do a good job, they have neither the background nor the talent for
teaching. In soaring the situation is much better - most CFIG's
actually want to teach, and that's half the battle.

The syllabus I use in conducting CFI training is individually tailored.
I expect that an additional rating CFI would have a baseline to add to
while an initial instructor would not.

In reality, every syllabus in general aviation instruction (outside the
Part 141 environment) is individually tailored. However, it's a
mistake to believe that an additional rating CFI has an instructional
baseline to add to. He may or he may not, just as an initial CFI may
or may not. What the additional rating CFI really has is experience
with taking CFI checkrides. There is certainly a skill involved in
taking and passing a CFI checkride, but that skill is not teaching.

The assertion earlier that contest or diamond badge pilots are the best
instructors would not stand the scrutiny of a visit to the local field
on a race day. In many cases the behaviors exhibited in judgement,
knowledge and temperment are polar opposites to the requirements of
good flight instruction.

Of course. Clearly the last thing we want to do is to teach our
students the behaviors that work for the most skilled and capable
soaring pilots out there. In my experience, the most skilled and
capable pilot on the field is never an instructor. I always wondered
why that was, but I'm beginning to understand it now.

Michael