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aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 5th 08, 01:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Vaughn Simon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 735
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.


"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
Even though you have been proven wrong by multiple posters?


I've never even commented on most of the posts. why would I? they are
entitled to their opinions.


Because this is a discussion group, not just a place to spout off and then
escape. That is how we learn from each other, by actually reading what the
other person has to say and (perhaps) actually learning something.

no poster has proven me wrong.


Wrong again.

Vaughn




Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.


Will poofread for food.




  #32  
Old August 5th 08, 02:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Harry K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 153
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

On Aug 4, 7:51*pm, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:32:29 -0400, Sliker
wrote:

If the brakes were that good, that was a nice exception. The postwar
stuff I flew had lousy brakes. Like the Swift with the orginal
Goodyear brakes. The disk pucks were about as big around as a quarter.
I know they must have known those wouldn't stop the plane.
The Champ had weak brakes too. And just about any of the planes with
heel brakes were pretty weak. And the worst were the ones with
mechanical brakes. I hear that's pretty much what got the old Ford
Model A's off the road. They couldn't pass inspection with mechanical
the installed mechanical brakes. Is there anyone hear that drove
those?


"juice brake" conversions were very common on the Model "A". Wasn't
stopping POWER that was critical, it was the BALLANCE. Buggers could
be all over the road before you got all 4 wheels drawing down evenly.
Had a 1928 Chevy National with mechanical brakes - they were pitiful -
outside bands on the rear deums for service brakes, expanding internal
shoes for the parking brake - and standard procedure was to pull the
hand beake and stop on the pedal at the same time if you REALLY needed
to stop.
Had a 1949VW Bug with mechanicals as well. Stopped fine after you
figured out which way it was going to head, and corrected for it
before putting BOTH feet into it.(mind you, it only did about 48MPH
wide open down hill with a tail wind)




snip

I recall my father constantly being under one adjusting the brakes to
get them to pull even. Then there was the day I helped my buddy
recover a Model B from a fence row. Was on top of a steep, crooked 7
mile down grade. We discovered that it wouldn't run so we towed it to
the top of the grade and coasted down. Also found that we only had
two working brakes. One on one front wheel by the foot pedal and one
on one rear by using the 'emergency brake'. Made it by him driving
and using the foot pedal me the emergency brake.

Harry K

Harry K
  #33  
Old August 5th 08, 02:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Harry K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 153
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

On Aug 5, 5:17*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:32:15 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"

wrote:

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
.. .
comments stand.


Even though you have been proven wrong by multiple posters?


I've never even commented on most of the posts. why would I? they are
entitled to their opinions. besides the increased turnover in spare
parts helps to keep the cost down.

I was taught by a number of very high time instructors back in the
70's that insert subject line here, exactly as I posted in the
original post.

no poster has proven me wrong.

brakes are brakes and they can be used for many purposes. some cause
little wear while other uses so abuse the systems that they almost
melt. whether you see that as a design intent is no matter to me. I
dont care, but it seemed necessary to point out just what good
airmanship practise was.

when I put new pads on earlier this year I broke one so I actually
have one of the pads sitting 2inches from my space bar as I type.
I calculated that it has a surface area of no more than 1.57 square
inches. when you brake hard in the aircraft they get fitted to you are
using no more than 6 and a quarter square inches of pad to stop a one
thousand five hundred pound weight aircraft.
as for standing on the brakes sure it can be done but at some
considerable abuse to the braking systems.
the concept is one of half m vee squared's worth of energy being
converted to heat by 6 or so square inches of pad.

you're obviously far more conversant with the engineering than I am so
I defer to your superior skills.
Dont mind if I continue to get 5 or 6 years out of a set of pads
though.
Stealth Pilot


That brake pads wear out is no surprise. They are designed to do
that. That you can 'baby' a set long past what is considered normal
useage is also true. It doesn't make them 'not designed to do what
they are there for' though. As to be proven wrong: Read back and
follow a coule cites that have been posted.

If you want anyone to lend credance to your 'theory' - post a cite of
your own that says they aren't meant to stop planes. Claiming 'well
Joe Blow and Jjohn Doe told me that' goes exactly nowhere as proof.

Harry K
  #34  
Old August 6th 08, 12:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Ernest Christley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 199
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

Stealth Pilot wrote:

I was taught by a number of very high time instructors back in the
70's that insert subject line here, exactly as I posted in the
original post.

no poster has proven me wrong.


Did those high timers bother to tell you HOW you were supposed to stop
that airplane?

I would note, that when designing a system, you do just that. Design a
SYSTEM. You don't design a fast engine or safe brakes. You design a
fast airplane or a safe airplane. Those high-timers could very well be
right...for a tail skid equipped tail dragger on a grass strip. That's
the way that particular model was designed...with a particular set of
assumptions and constraints in mind. To generalize that set of
constraints/requirements to the operational characteristics of a
fast-glass airplane is just ridiculous.

At this point, no poster can prove you wrong. You are not listening to
any sort of reason, logic, or printed statements from recognized
authorities. You have decided that an over-generalization from someone
you trusted back in the 70's takes precedence above everything else.
There is no way to cure rectal asphyxiation.
  #35  
Old August 6th 08, 12:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Jim Logajan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,958
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

Stealth Pilot wrote:
I was taught by a number of very high time instructors back in the
70's that insert subject line here, exactly as I posted in the
original post.


I can't speak to powered aircraft since I only just started training in
gliders a few weeks back. But the SGS 2-33 I'm training in has a wheel
brake on its single wheel that is not used for anything but landings. It
doesn't engage until the airbrakes are fully open/deployed (pulling all the
way back on the airbrake handle engages the wheel brake.) It is not used
during taxi since no one is normally in it when the glider is towed
(airbrakes closed). It isn't used when the glider is tied down since the
airbrakes should be closed at that time also.

It is true that one doesn't always need them, but the only thing they were
designed for was for stopping the glider - not holding it in place.
  #36  
Old August 6th 08, 12:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Stealth Pilot[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 846
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:15:25 -0400, Ernest Christley
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote:

I was taught by a number of very high time instructors back in the
70's that insert subject line here, exactly as I posted in the
original post.

no poster has proven me wrong.


Did those high timers bother to tell you HOW you were supposed to stop
that airplane?


you sound very irish.
"the runways are ever so wide but my gosh they are short..."

have you ever wondered why you have a longer runway than absolutely
needed?

if you want to refute the comment quote design intents not the POH.
the POH has sections on engine fire but you arent expected to have one
every flight. same for short field technique.
I know it is subtle but you shouldnt be wearing out the aeroplane
every flight.

Stealth (thanks for keeping parts cheap) Pilot

  #37  
Old August 6th 08, 12:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Stealth Pilot[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 846
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:45:06 -0500, Jim Logajan
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote:
I was taught by a number of very high time instructors back in the
70's that insert subject line here, exactly as I posted in the
original post.


I can't speak to powered aircraft since I only just started training in
gliders a few weeks back. But the SGS 2-33 I'm training in has a wheel
brake on its single wheel that is not used for anything but landings. It
doesn't engage until the airbrakes are fully open/deployed (pulling all the
way back on the airbrake handle engages the wheel brake.) It is not used
during taxi since no one is normally in it when the glider is towed
(airbrakes closed). It isn't used when the glider is tied down since the
airbrakes should be closed at that time also.

It is true that one doesn't always need them, but the only thing they were
designed for was for stopping the glider - not holding it in place.


I did comment that different types of aircraft often have different
design intents. I wasnt commenting on gliders.

Stealth Pilot
  #38  
Old August 6th 08, 01:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Vaughn Simon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 735
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
I wasnt commenting on gliders.


So you apparently don't know the difference between an "aircraft" and an
"airplane", yet you wish to lecture us all on airplane design and piloting?

YOUR title: "Aircraft brakes were..."

From Part 1 FARs(General Definitions), "AIRCRAFT means a device that is used
or intended to be used for flight in the air."

So I guess you actually WERE commenting on gliders, unless you wish to
retroactively change the title of this subject thread that you yourself started.
Is there any other part of your theory that you would like to change
retroactively?

Further, have you yet bothered to read 14 CFR part 23 Sec. 23.735? (I am
guessing not) It will give you the design criteria for brakes on certified
light airplanes. Hint: it involves stopping the aircraft.

Vaughn



  #39  
Old August 6th 08, 04:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Harry K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 153
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

On Aug 6, 5:27*am, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message

...

I wasnt commenting on gliders.


* *So you apparently don't know the difference between an "aircraft" and an
"airplane", yet you wish to lecture us all on airplane design and piloting?

* *YOUR title: *"Aircraft brakes were..."

* *From Part 1 FARs(General Definitions), "AIRCRAFT means a device that is used
or intended to be used for flight in the air."

* *So I guess you actually WERE commenting on gliders, unless you wish to
retroactively change the title of this subject thread that you yourself started.
Is there any other part of your theory that you would like to change
retroactively?

* *Further, have you yet bothered to read 14 CFR part 23 Sec. 23.735? *(I am
guessing not) *It will give you the design criteria for brakes on certified
light airplanes. *Hint: *it involves stopping the aircraft.

Vaughn


I suspect that he won't. He seems to be a member of the 'I knows what
I knows and don't confurse me with facts' brigade.

Harry K
  #40  
Old August 6th 08, 06:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
john smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,446
Default aircraft brakes were never designed for stopping aircraft.

Gentlemen:
Before you get so carried away with correcting another poster's
terminology, I will take this opportunity to remind you that "American
English" is not the only language used on this forum.
The same arguements you make could be used against you in other parts of
the world where "proper English" is spoken.

Don't be so quick to criticize (one of the "correct" spellings of the
word).
 




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