Getting confused with ATC order...Violation?

On 2008-04-03 19:11:38 -0700, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net said:


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.

Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you.

Bull****, he's okay anyway.

STFU, you're wrong as usual.

Anthony forgets that people don't die in simulators.

They do die in real airplanes, though, and the FAA has held that a
pilot who reads back an erroneous clearance is still required to fly
the one given him by ATC, even if ATC doesn't correct him. But even if
Anthony was correct from a legal standpoint, flying a misunderstood
heading can easily kill you. Then it doesn't matter who was right --
you are the one who is dead.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Apr 3, 9:04 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.


There was no change in policy.

On 2008-04-04, Private wrote:
Technically, ATC has no jurisdiction to "victor" VFR aircraft
I hesitate to nitpick an otherwise excelent post, but for the benefit of the
OP wish to note that the correct spelling should be "vector".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vector

"Got the vector, Victor?"
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

On Apr 4, 6:57 am, Larry Dighera wrote:ATC does
have

Technically, ATC has no jurisdiction to "victor" VFR aircraft
operating within Class E airspace. Controllers often do attempt to do
that, but compliance is at the discretion of the Pilot In Command
(PIC).


The Class E airspace near Marysville would be within the outer area
associated with Beale AFB Class C airspace. Class C services are
provided to participating traffic and VFR aircraft can be vectored.

Private wrote:
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2008040405554543658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2008-04-03 19:11:38 -0700, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net said:

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.
Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said
nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you.
Bull****, he's okay anyway.

STFU, you're wrong as usual.
Anthony forgets that people don't die in simulators.

They do die in real airplanes, though, and the FAA has held that a pilot
who reads back an erroneous clearance is still required to fly the one
given him by ATC, even if ATC doesn't correct him. But even if Anthony was
correct from a legal standpoint, flying a misunderstood heading can easily
kill you. Then it doesn't matter who was right --
you are the one who is dead.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


Difference between ATC and pilot.
When a pilot makes a mistake the pilot dies.
When ATC makes a mistake the pilot dies.

Happy landings,



.........and this is a VERY good reason for pilots NEVER get into a
"who's right and who's wrong with ATC mental attitude, but rather to do
everything in their power to keep communication with ATC simple,
accurate, and above all, HELPFUL to ATC in aiding them in protecting the
pilot's safety.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Apr 4, 7:55 am, C J Campbell
wrote:

They do die in real airplanes, though, and the FAA has held that a
pilot who reads back an erroneous clearance is still required to fly
the one given him by ATC, even if ATC doesn't correct him.


The FAA hasn't held that at all.

Again...thanks everyone for your helpful advice....i just keep
laughing at the snide snips and jokes about simulators and differences
between atc and pilots...

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:51:09 -0700 (PDT), "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

On Apr 4, 6:57 am, Larry Dighera wrote:ATC does
have

Technically, ATC has no jurisdiction to "victor" VFR aircraft
operating within Class E airspace. Controllers often do attempt to do
that, but compliance is at the discretion of the Pilot In Command
(PIC).


The Class E airspace near Marysville would be within the outer area
associated with Beale AFB Class C airspace.

It looks that way he http://skyvector.com/perl/code?id=KMYV&scale=3

Class C services are provided to participating traffic and VFR
aircraft can be vectored.

So that's only true for ATC vectoring VFR flights operating in Class E
airspace generally within 30 miles of a Class C airport. I hadn't
consulted a chart when I made my statement.

To be more accurate, I should have said, "Technically, ATC has no
jurisdiction to "victor" VFR aircraft operating within Class E
airspace unless they are within a Class C outer area." Is that
consistent with your view of the regulations/orders?

Thanks for your input.

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:38:52 -0700 (PDT), "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 9:04 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.


There was no change in policy.

So it seems. The FAA issued an interpretive rule:

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulat...retiverule.pdf
Federal Register / Vol. 64, No. 62 / Thursday, April 1, 1999
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Part 91
Pilot Responsibility for Compliance With Air Traffic Control
Clearances and Instructions

SUMMARY: Pilots operating in areas in
which air traffic control is exercised are
required by regulation to comply with
the clearances and instructions of air
traffic controllers except in very narrow
circumstances. The FAA has
consistently construed and enforced this
requirement as ascribing to pilots a high
level of responsibility to monitor air
traffic control communications
attentively. Under normal
circumstances, the FAA has expected
pilots to understand and to comply with
clearly transmitted and reasonably
phrased clearances and instructions that
govern their operations. Nevertheless, a
series of recent National Transportation
Safety Board (NTSB) enforcement
decisions has raised a question
regarding the regulatory responsibility
of pilots to hear and to comply with air
traffic control clearances and
instructions. This interpretive rule
confirms the FAA’s historical
construction of its regulations that
require compliance with air traffic
control clearances and instructions.

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 09:39:39 -0700, "Private"
wrote:

the correct spelling should be "vector".

Thank you.