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#21
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Implausible Time Records
An interesting thought, but I see the same whether I'm using the
ClearNav or the ClearNav vario.Â* I doubt both could be experiencing the same fault at the same time.Â* It's really odd about the apparent time compression on the OLC display.Â* My flights score and appear just fine on skylines.aero. On 5/7/2019 8:21 AM, kinsell wrote: Looking at your flight logs on OLC, you have the last two that didn't validate, but others earlier this year that did. However, most of the altitude graphs are plotted with many hours of dead time, with the flight being compressed into the very right hand part of the graph. A very bizarre presentation. Perhaps your ClearNav has a hardware fault that is gradually getting worse? On 5/6/19 4:20 PM, Dan Marotta wrote: These dropouts never occur during engine run which normally only runs 10 minutes or less from engine start to shutdown after takeoff. Heating up the dielectric is something I didn't consider.Â* Maybe I should replace the antennae... On 5/6/2019 11:39 AM, kinsell wrote: On 5/6/19 10:32 AM, Dan Marotta wrote: I've also had drop outs with my Trig TN-70 and its antenna, though not as often as with my soaring GPSs. Do they correlate with the engine running?Â* If so, might be ignition noise. Yes, the wires are tiny, but it was pretty simple to desolder them from the puck, clip the cable to length, strip, tin, and solder.Â* I did that for 3 antennae and they generally work fine, but lately have acting up. It's easy to overheat the dielectric in the coax, causing loss of signal strength. I'm looking at THESE https://www.amazon.com/CIROCOMM-Antenna-Ceramic-25x25x2mm-Geekstory/dp/B078Y2WNY6?ref_=Oct_TopRatedC_3248676011_1&pf_rd_p =57ac2d87-b669-53fa-a2b6-2c15e8d66f28&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=3248676011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX 0DER&pf_rd_r=GNQVSWJ3FAVNDTDDJJDS&pf_rd_r=GNQVSWJ3 FAVNDTDDJJDS&pf_rd_p=57ac2d87-b669-53fa-a2b6-2c15e8d66f28 as replacements.Â* Any comments?Â* I wonder if that IPEX connector is a push fit on the built in SMA connectors on the devices. I'm also considering replacing the modified antennae with factory new units and using the longer cables to mount them on opposite canopy rails in the Stemme.Â* Those should be about a meter apart. On 5/6/2019 9:44 AM, kinsell wrote: Jamming is directed skyward, they're not taking out car gps's in a 400 nm radius.Â* If you're getting bad time stamps just at liftoff, it's not likely caused by jamming. I'm suspicious of your cut-down gps cables, those are tiny wires to be working on. On 5/6/19 9:08 AM, Dan Marotta wrote: Yes, the GPS jamming usually centers around Alamogordo and ranges out to about 400 nm.Â* Moriarty is well within that area.Â* I've asked other local pilots and they don't report so many drop outs. Maybe there are just too many GPS antennae in my ship. I'll take a look at a divider for everything except the ADS-B WAAS GPS.Â* Its antenna is mounted aft of the engine in the Stemme. The rest are on or under the glare shield. On 5/5/2019 7:42 PM, JS wrote: On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 3:43:24 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote: Thanks Tim I'll increase my time interval to 2 seconds and see if that helps. Strange that the igc file does not show GPS drop outs since my ClearNav screen went white with the caption (something like) No GPS. Zero satellites.Â* And the ClearNav vario said, "Warning no GPS". The PowerFlarm portable screen also went blank with a "Zero satellites" message. On 5/5/2019 1:05 PM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote: Dan, Open your file with a text editor and search for "B190338" This will put you in the right area. In each record, after the letter B, the next six bytes are the time. After B190339 the time jumps back toÂ* B190337, which is odd, and leads to there being two records with a time of 190338, and also 190339. Odd, but I have seen this before. Maybe you can avoid it in future by setting a longer fix interval, even 2 seconds might help, but no promises. I am not seeing any GPS outage around that time. This would be shown by the Letter "A" in the 25th byte changing to a "V". Although it does not help a lot, the sequence error seems to happen as you left the ground, so I guess you were not reversing turns? I'm not saying this is what OLC are complaining about, just that it is odd and it might be. Tim. -- Dan, 5J That smells of GPS jamming. Check this page. https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/gps/...terference.pdf I did not have a problem with the vario file today. My antenna has a shortened cable to a MECA divider, then a short SMA-SMA link cable. Jim -- Dan, 5J -- Dan, 5J |
#22
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Implausible Time Records
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 4:30:05 AM UTC-4, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
... I have seen similar time sequence errors in other recorders over the years... IIRC I've seen this from a number of GPS engines; certainly I've got some Garmin engine logs like this. The problem is naive software that doesn't filter 'obviously' wrong stuff from the GPS engine, including time going backwards and stupendous position jumps. Some nice example traces here momentarily detour from Montana into the North Atlantic for example... None of my collected examples were (to my best understanding) related to jamming. Its important not to trust too much the inputs ;-) See ya, Dave |
#23
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Implausible Time Records
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 9:21:33 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
An interesting thought, but I see the same whether I'm using the ClearNav or the ClearNav vario.Â* I doubt both could be experiencing the same fault at the same time.Â* It's really odd about the apparent time compression on the OLC display.Â* My flights score and appear just fine on skylines.aero. On 5/7/2019 8:21 AM, kinsell wrote: Looking at your flight logs on OLC, you have the last two that didn't validate, but others earlier this year that did. However, most of the altitude graphs are plotted with many hours of dead time, with the flight being compressed into the very right hand part of the graph. A very bizarre presentation. Perhaps your ClearNav has a hardware fault that is gradually getting worse? On 5/6/19 4:20 PM, Dan Marotta wrote: These dropouts never occur during engine run which normally only runs 10 minutes or less from engine start to shutdown after takeoff. Heating up the dielectric is something I didn't consider.Â* Maybe I should replace the antennae... On 5/6/2019 11:39 AM, kinsell wrote: On 5/6/19 10:32 AM, Dan Marotta wrote: I've also had drop outs with my Trig TN-70 and its antenna, though not as often as with my soaring GPSs. Do they correlate with the engine running?Â* If so, might be ignition noise. Yes, the wires are tiny, but it was pretty simple to desolder them from the puck, clip the cable to length, strip, tin, and solder.Â* I did that for 3 antennae and they generally work fine, but lately have acting up. It's easy to overheat the dielectric in the coax, causing loss of signal strength. I'm looking at THESE https://www.amazon.com/CIROCOMM-Antenna-Ceramic-25x25x2mm-Geekstory/dp/B078Y2WNY6?ref_=Oct_TopRatedC_3248676011_1&pf_rd_p =57ac2d87-b669-53fa-a2b6-2c15e8d66f28&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=3248676011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX 0DER&pf_rd_r=GNQVSWJ3FAVNDTDDJJDS&pf_rd_r=GNQVSWJ3 FAVNDTDDJJDS&pf_rd_p=57ac2d87-b669-53fa-a2b6-2c15e8d66f28 as replacements.Â* Any comments?Â* I wonder if that IPEX connector is a push fit on the built in SMA connectors on the devices. I'm also considering replacing the modified antennae with factory new units and using the longer cables to mount them on opposite canopy rails in the Stemme.Â* Those should be about a meter apart. On 5/6/2019 9:44 AM, kinsell wrote: Jamming is directed skyward, they're not taking out car gps's in a 400 nm radius.Â* If you're getting bad time stamps just at liftoff, it's not likely caused by jamming. I'm suspicious of your cut-down gps cables, those are tiny wires to be working on. On 5/6/19 9:08 AM, Dan Marotta wrote: Yes, the GPS jamming usually centers around Alamogordo and ranges out to about 400 nm.Â* Moriarty is well within that area.Â* I've asked other local pilots and they don't report so many drop outs. Maybe there are just too many GPS antennae in my ship. I'll take a look at a divider for everything except the ADS-B WAAS GPS.Â* Its antenna is mounted aft of the engine in the Stemme. The rest are on or under the glare shield. On 5/5/2019 7:42 PM, JS wrote: On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 3:43:24 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote: Thanks Tim I'll increase my time interval to 2 seconds and see if that helps. Strange that the igc file does not show GPS drop outs since my ClearNav screen went white with the caption (something like) No GPS. Zero satellites.Â* And the ClearNav vario said, "Warning no GPS". The PowerFlarm portable screen also went blank with a "Zero satellites" message. On 5/5/2019 1:05 PM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote: Dan, Open your file with a text editor and search for "B190338" This will put you in the right area. In each record, after the letter B, the next six bytes are the time. After B190339 the time jumps back toÂ* B190337, which is odd, and leads to there being two records with a time of 190338, and also 190339. Odd, but I have seen this before. Maybe you can avoid it in future by setting a longer fix interval, even 2 seconds might help, but no promises. I am not seeing any GPS outage around that time. This would be shown by the Letter "A" in the 25th byte changing to a "V". Although it does not help a lot, the sequence error seems to happen as you left the ground, so I guess you were not reversing turns? I'm not saying this is what OLC are complaining about, just that it is odd and it might be. Tim. -- Dan, 5J That smells of GPS jamming. Check this page. https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/gps/...terference.pdf I did not have a problem with the vario file today. My antenna has a shortened cable to a MECA divider, then a short SMA-SMA link cable. Jim -- Dan, 5J -- Dan, 5J Dan, my ClearNav XC logger, when downloaded to the OLC, appears to display the same as yours(time compression to the right). I used my Flarm IGC logger and it appears normal for the OLC. Yet on Skyline aero, Cross-country aero and See you, the ClearNav logger displays and views as normal. The last several flights I have had experience GPS dropouts, which on Sunday seemed odd, and lasted only several minutes at a time(I fly out of KALM and the loss of signal was in numerous areas on Sunday). All the updates have been done, now several times over, yet the ClearNav logger and OLC just don't get along, yet the flight is scored and shows valid. Don't get an OLC speed when using the ClearNav. When you figure this out, let us know! Best. Tom #711 |
#24
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Implausible Time Records
Will do, Tom. Thanks.
I don't use the Flarm portable because it uses an SD card which is a hassle and mine doesn't have an ENL license.Â* I'm not interested in buying a license for such an old piece of equipment.Â* Besides, my soaring income and bevy of chicks has not declined since having these problems... On 5/7/2019 10:23 AM, Tom Kelley #711 wrote: On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 9:21:33 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote: An interesting thought, but I see the same whether I'm using the ClearNav or the ClearNav vario.Â* I doubt both could be experiencing the same fault at the same time.Â* It's really odd about the apparent time compression on the OLC display.Â* My flights score and appear just fine on skylines.aero. On 5/7/2019 8:21 AM, kinsell wrote: Looking at your flight logs on OLC, you have the last two that didn't validate, but others earlier this year that did. However, most of the altitude graphs are plotted with many hours of dead time, with the flight being compressed into the very right hand part of the graph. A very bizarre presentation. Perhaps your ClearNav has a hardware fault that is gradually getting worse? On 5/6/19 4:20 PM, Dan Marotta wrote: These dropouts never occur during engine run which normally only runs 10 minutes or less from engine start to shutdown after takeoff. Heating up the dielectric is something I didn't consider.Â* Maybe I should replace the antennae... On 5/6/2019 11:39 AM, kinsell wrote: On 5/6/19 10:32 AM, Dan Marotta wrote: I've also had drop outs with my Trig TN-70 and its antenna, though not as often as with my soaring GPSs. Do they correlate with the engine running?Â* If so, might be ignition noise. Yes, the wires are tiny, but it was pretty simple to desolder them from the puck, clip the cable to length, strip, tin, and solder.Â* I did that for 3 antennae and they generally work fine, but lately have acting up. It's easy to overheat the dielectric in the coax, causing loss of signal strength. I'm looking at THESE https://www.amazon.com/CIROCOMM-Antenna-Ceramic-25x25x2mm-Geekstory/dp/B078Y2WNY6?ref_=Oct_TopRatedC_3248676011_1&pf_rd_p =57ac2d87-b669-53fa-a2b6-2c15e8d66f28&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=3248676011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX 0DER&pf_rd_r=GNQVSWJ3FAVNDTDDJJDS&pf_rd_r=GNQVSWJ3 FAVNDTDDJJDS&pf_rd_p=57ac2d87-b669-53fa-a2b6-2c15e8d66f28 as replacements.Â* Any comments?Â* I wonder if that IPEX connector is a push fit on the built in SMA connectors on the devices. I'm also considering replacing the modified antennae with factory new units and using the longer cables to mount them on opposite canopy rails in the Stemme.Â* Those should be about a meter apart. On 5/6/2019 9:44 AM, kinsell wrote: Jamming is directed skyward, they're not taking out car gps's in a 400 nm radius.Â* If you're getting bad time stamps just at liftoff, it's not likely caused by jamming. I'm suspicious of your cut-down gps cables, those are tiny wires to be working on. On 5/6/19 9:08 AM, Dan Marotta wrote: Yes, the GPS jamming usually centers around Alamogordo and ranges out to about 400 nm.Â* Moriarty is well within that area.Â* I've asked other local pilots and they don't report so many drop outs. Maybe there are just too many GPS antennae in my ship. I'll take a look at a divider for everything except the ADS-B WAAS GPS. Its antenna is mounted aft of the engine in the Stemme. The rest are on or under the glare shield. On 5/5/2019 7:42 PM, JS wrote: On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 3:43:24 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote: Thanks Tim I'll increase my time interval to 2 seconds and see if that helps. Strange that the igc file does not show GPS drop outs since my ClearNav screen went white with the caption (something like) No GPS. Zero satellites.Â* And the ClearNav vario said, "Warning no GPS". The PowerFlarm portable screen also went blank with a "Zero satellites" message. On 5/5/2019 1:05 PM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote: Dan, Open your file with a text editor and search for "B190338" This will put you in the right area. In each record, after the letter B, the next six bytes are the time. After B190339 the time jumps back toÂ* B190337, which is odd, and leads to there being two records with a time of 190338, and also 190339. Odd, but I have seen this before. Maybe you can avoid it in future by setting a longer fix interval, even 2 seconds might help, but no promises. I am not seeing any GPS outage around that time. This would be shown by the Letter "A" in the 25th byte changing to a "V". Although it does not help a lot, the sequence error seems to happen as you left the ground, so I guess you were not reversing turns? I'm not saying this is what OLC are complaining about, just that it is odd and it might be. Tim. -- Dan, 5J That smells of GPS jamming. Check this page. https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/gps/...terference.pdf I did not have a problem with the vario file today. My antenna has a shortened cable to a MECA divider, then a short SMA-SMA link cable. Jim -- Dan, 5J -- Dan, 5J Dan, my ClearNav XC logger, when downloaded to the OLC, appears to display the same as yours(time compression to the right). I used my Flarm IGC logger and it appears normal for the OLC. Yet on Skyline aero, Cross-country aero and See you, the ClearNav logger displays and views as normal. The last several flights I have had experience GPS dropouts, which on Sunday seemed odd, and lasted only several minutes at a time(I fly out of KALM and the loss of signal was in numerous areas on Sunday). All the updates have been done, now several times over, yet the ClearNav logger and OLC just don't get along, yet the flight is scored and shows valid. Don't get an OLC speed when using the ClearNav. When you figure this out, let us know! Best. Tom #711 -- Dan, 5J |
#25
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Implausible Time Records
On 5/7/19 10:10 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 4:30:05 AM UTC-4, Tim Newport-Peace wrote: ... I have seen similar time sequence errors in other recorders over the years... IIRC I've seen this from a number of GPS engines; certainly I've got some Garmin engine logs like this. The problem is naive software that doesn't filter 'obviously' wrong stuff from the GPS engine, including time going backwards and stupendous position jumps. Some nice example traces here momentarily detour from Montana into the North Atlantic for example... None of my collected examples were (to my best understanding) related to jamming. Its important not to trust too much the inputs ;-) See ya, Dave I can't fault software for failing to filter out bad data. Having submitted a number of logs to OLC from a cell phone, I don't see the type of errors described here. Maybe better gps engines are in order? Seems like producing good data is better than filtering out bad data. |
#26
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Implausible Time Records
I can't fault software for failing to filter out bad data.Â* Having submitted a number of logs to OLC from a cell phone, I don't see the type of errors described here.Â* Maybe better gps engines are in order? Seems like producing good data is better than filtering out bad data. What you say has merit, but I can't see opening up my ClearNav computer and vario and attempting to replace the GPS engines. Since both and my PowerFlarm portable experience the drop outs, I've got three new antennae on order.Â* We'll see how that works. Funny how this just started happening in the end of April... -- Dan, 5J |
#27
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Implausible Time Records
On Wed, 08 May 2019 08:58:39 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:
Funny how this just started happening in the end of April... I thought: have you got another logger you could leave running on the field away from the runway but where it gets a decent signal? If that also gets the time hiccup, then you'll know the problem is outside the Stemme. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#28
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Implausible Time Records
I have a Dell Streak in the cockpit (right side) for my wife's use. It
also records an igc file which I can post on skylines.org.Â* It is not acceptable to OLC due to no ENL recorder.Â* Maybe the XCSoar troops would write a module to access the Streak's microphone and record engine noise...Â* Or maybe one of the XCSoar clones already does that? On 5/8/2019 12:16 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 08 May 2019 08:58:39 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote: Funny how this just started happening in the end of April... I thought: have you got another logger you could leave running on the field away from the runway but where it gets a decent signal? If that also gets the time hiccup, then you'll know the problem is outside the Stemme. -- Dan, 5J |
#29
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Implausible Time Records
I see a flight on Jan 27 this year that had the same highly compressed
altitude graph, so something wasn't right well before end of April. Sounds like you've got problems due to jamming, in addition to at least one other issue. Should be plenty of other gliders flying out of Moriarty to compare logs with. Suppose you could submit one from the Dell Streak and lie about the glider type, then delete it after seeing how OLC likes it. -Dave On 5/8/19 4:28 PM, Dan Marotta wrote: I have a Dell Streak in the cockpit (right side) for my wife's use. It also records an igc file which I can post on skylines.org.Â* It is not acceptable to OLC due to no ENL recorder.Â* Maybe the XCSoar troops would write a module to access the Streak's microphone and record engine noise...Â* Or maybe one of the XCSoar clones already does that? On 5/8/2019 12:16 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 08 May 2019 08:58:39 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote: Funny how this just started happening in the end of April... I thought: have you got another logger you could leave running on the field away from the runway but where it gets a decent signal? If that also gets the time hiccup, then you'll know the problem is outside the Stemme. |
#30
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Implausible Time Records
Good idea.Â* I noticed the time compression some time ago but chalked it
to OLC doing something new.Â* It's cloudy and rainy today but I need to go to the airport anyway.Â* I'll get the Streak. On 5/8/2019 7:58 PM, kinsell wrote: I see a flight on Jan 27 this year that had the same highly compressed altitude graph, so something wasn't right well before end of April. Sounds like you've got problems due to jamming, in addition to at least one other issue. Should be plenty of other gliders flying out of Moriarty to compare logs with.Â* Suppose you could submit one from the Dell Streak and lie about the glider type, then delete it after seeing how OLC likes it. -Dave On 5/8/19 4:28 PM, Dan Marotta wrote: I have a Dell Streak in the cockpit (right side) for my wife's use. It also records an igc file which I can post on skylines.org.Â* It is not acceptable to OLC due to no ENL recorder.Â* Maybe the XCSoar troops would write a module to access the Streak's microphone and record engine noise...Â* Or maybe one of the XCSoar clones already does that? On 5/8/2019 12:16 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 08 May 2019 08:58:39 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote: Funny how this just started happening in the end of April... I thought: have you got another logger you could leave running on the field away from the runway but where it gets a decent signal? If that also gets the time hiccup, then you'll know the problem is outside the Stemme. -- Dan, 5J |
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