IFR to Oshkosh without an IFR reservation

I left it too late to get a reservation. Can I just file to FAH VOR and
then proceed VFR to Ripon and join the conga line?

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
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Paul Tomblin wrote:

I left it too late to get a reservation. Can I just file to FAH VOR
and then proceed VFR to Ripon and join the conga line?


No. You won't be allowed to enter the RIPON sector without an IFR
reservation.

On Jul 26, 4:16*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
Paul Tomblin wrote:

I left it too late to get a reservation. *Can I just file to FAH VOR
and then proceed VFR to Ripon and join the conga line?

No. *You won't be allowed to enter the RIPON sector without an IFR
reservation.

What is the RIPON sector? Per the NOTAM the IFR reservation would be
required for the "Oshkosh Area" which is defined "within 30NM of the
OSH VORTAC)". FAH is 33nm from OSH. Couldn't he file to the
Sheboygan airport (KSBM) and then stay at a suitable altitude and
cancel? After all a reservation isn't required for KSBM per the
NOTAM.

But if FAH doesn't work for him, would BJB (38nm)? What about
BAE(53nm)? Couldn't he file for the airports for those VOR's as
well? Obviously, all requirements for filing for a given airport are
required, i.e. alternate, etc. visibility, approaches, etc. But we're
assuming widespread VFR in this case.

I'm coming froming from a slightly different direction, but my
thoughts were to file to JVL and then cancel and scoot on the rest of
the way VFR. Or Heck, maybe I'll file to KUNU (34nm) and just cancel
in the air prior to landing.

I only ask because your interpretation doesn't make sense. If FAH is
in the RIPON sector then he woudln't be able to file to KSBM either or
require a reservation for the airport. And he doesn't per the NOTAM.

I suppose they could put a ground stop on all aircraft heading to any
WI airport, but I've never heard of that for GA aircraft.

Brian
N9093K

bdl wrote:

What is the RIPON sector?


The RIPON sector is the airspace that was transferred from Chicago ARTCC to
Milwaukee TRACON last February. It includes OSH, SBM, and FLD and goes from
the surface to 13,000 MSL.



Per the NOTAM the IFR reservation would be
required for the "Oshkosh Area" which is defined "within 30NM of the
OSH VORTAC)". FAH is 33nm from OSH. Couldn't he file to the
Sheboygan airport (KSBM) and then stay at a suitable altitude and
cancel? After all a reservation isn't required for KSBM per the
NOTAM.


Probably not. The RIPON Low sector has 6000 MSL to the surface so he'd have
to be at 7000 or higher, but aircraft inbound to GRB, ATW, and MTW are
routed over FAH descending to 7000.



But if FAH doesn't work for him, would BJB (38nm)? What about
BAE(53nm)?


No, regardless what is filed aircraft are going to be given one ot the IFR
preferred routes and BJB and BAE ain't on 'em.



Couldn't he file for the airports for those VOR's as
well? Obviously, all requirements for filing for a given airport are
required, i.e. alternate, etc. visibility, approaches, etc. But we're
assuming widespread VFR in this case.


Of course, that would give him a clearance limit outside of the RIPON
sector.



I'm coming froming from a slightly different direction, but my
thoughts were to file to JVL and then cancel and scoot on the rest of
the way VFR. Or Heck, maybe I'll file to KUNU (34nm) and just cancel
in the air prior to landing.


KUNU would be fine, that's as far as you can go from the southwest IFR
without a reservation.



I only ask because your interpretation doesn't make sense. If FAH is
in the RIPON sector then he woudln't be able to file to KSBM either or
require a reservation for the airport. And he doesn't per the NOTAM.


Trust me, this is the 25th EAA convention I've worked as a controller. Nine
at Chicago ARTCC in the area that includes OSH and sixteen at GRB TRACON.
Oshkosh bound IFR aircraft without a reservation don't get into that sector
with a promise to cancel short of OSH, they're issued a clearance limit
outside of the sector.

On Jul 26, 2:56*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
Trust me, this is the 25th EAA convention I've worked as a controller. *Nine
at Chicago ARTCC in the area that includes OSH and sixteen at GRB TRACON.
Oshkosh bound IFR aircraft without a reservation don't get into that sector
with a promise to cancel short of OSH, they're issued a clearance limit
outside of the sector.

Great! Thanks for your further input. But it still remains that he
could file to an airport outside the 30nm range of the OSH vortac,
descend below some altitude by that clearance limit, and then cancel
IFR and go to RIPON and beyond VFR. I think thats what the original
poster wanted to do by filing to FAH.

Obviously if the field is IFR or you can't do the VFR arrival due to
weather then that won't help.

Curious, which facility are you working this year? I'm sure it would
be too busy and too varied to actually end up talking to you on
frequency, but appreciate the help you've given.

Brian

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
bdl wrote:
I only ask because your interpretation doesn't make sense. If FAH is
in the RIPON sector then he woudln't be able to file to KSBM either or
require a reservation for the airport. And he doesn't per the NOTAM.


Trust me, this is the 25th EAA convention I've worked as a controller. Nine
at Chicago ARTCC in the area that includes OSH and sixteen at GRB TRACON.
Oshkosh bound IFR aircraft without a reservation don't get into that sector
with a promise to cancel short of OSH, they're issued a clearance limit
outside of the sector.

But FAH is outside the sector, and that's the clearance limit I want.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the
usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody
thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin, interviewed in Doctor Dobb's Journal

Paul Tomblin wrote:

But FAH is outside the sector, and that's the clearance limit I want.


No, FAH is inside the sector.

bdl wrote:
On Jul 26, 2:56 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
Trust me, this is the 25th EAA convention I've worked as a
controller. Nine at Chicago ARTCC in the area that includes OSH and
sixteen at GRB TRACON. Oshkosh bound IFR aircraft without a
reservation don't get into that sector with a promise to cancel
short of OSH, they're issued a clearance limit outside of the sector.

Great! Thanks for your further input. But it still remains that he
could file to an airport outside the 30nm range of the OSH vortac,
descend below some altitude by that clearance limit, and then cancel
IFR and go to RIPON and beyond VFR. I think thats what the original
poster wanted to do by filing to FAH.

Obviously if the field is IFR or you can't do the VFR arrival due to
weather then that won't help.


The NOTAM states:

"In previous years, air traffic services in the area surrounding Oshkosh
were provided by Chicago Center. Early in 2008, Milwaukee Approach Control
assumed responsibility for this area. A reminder: you must have a
reservation number to enter this Milwaukee Approach Control airspace under
IFR."



Curious, which facility are you working this year?


Green Bay TRACON.



I'm sure it would
be too busy and too varied to actually end up talking to you on
frequency, but appreciate the help you've given.


Actually, today was the lightest pre-convention Saturday I've ever seen.

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
But FAH is outside the sector, and that's the clearance limit I want.


No, FAH is inside the sector.

Then why doesn't the SBM airport that require a reservation? Why does the
NOTAM say you only need a reservation within 30nm of OSH, and FAH (and
SBM) is 33nm from OSH?


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Many of the places I've worked had RAID 666. If a disk crashed,
everything went to Hell." - Stephan Zielinski

Paul Tomblin wrote:

Then why doesn't the SBM airport that require a reservation? Why
does the NOTAM say you only need a reservation within 30nm of OSH,
and FAH (and SBM) is 33nm from OSH?


Don't try to look at this logically. If logic had come into play Milwaukee
approach wouldn't have the airspace.