Leaving the community

Howard Nelson wrote:
Ya know. I think David actually left. Not a bad troll through muddy waters
however.

IMO the election was a contest between the people pulling the wagon and the
people riding in the wagon. Luckily 51% of the people were pulling the wagon
so it will probably keep moving (perfect wagon with no losses to friction
etc.). Once 51% or greater are riding in the wagon then it will only move
downhill.

Howard


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What do you base this on? If we analyze the tax receipts of states who
voted for W and the ones that voted for Kerry, we'll see that those darn
Kerry supportin' states are sitting in the wagon waiting for us to pull
them along while generating the VAST MAJORITY of taxes!

I haven't done an analysis for this year yet (obviously, since the year
isn't over and the data isn't there yet) but I do have the numbers for
the 2000 contest. Since we had essentially the same red/blue map, this
is still telling. The bottom line?

Total tax receipts from states that voted for each candidate, in $millions:
Go $1,202,891,545
Bush: $873,151,976

SOURCE: 2000 IRS Data Book, Publication 55b. Also Chief Financial
Officer, Revenue Accounting, Office of Revenue Systems N:CFO:R.

Who's pulling the cart?

I have the excel sheet if you'd like to dig in yourself.

What amazes me is that the people in the red states simply haven't
realized how much they are shooting themselves in the foot by supporting
Bush's tax cuts. Most of that money stayed in the blue states!

Unless the people in the red states really think that the money is
distributed according to contribution, they should be careful what they
wish for when they want to "get the gubmint off our back". If the
gubmint does this, they're going to need to provide a hell of a lot more
faith based social services than they are right now. There will be a lot
of destitute farmers, and the suburbanites will NOT like the state of
their highway systems. The urban folks will have even crappier schools
and rising crime rates. But the gubmint won't be on their backs!

It irks me when I hear that this election was decided on values and
morals, suggesting that Bush has a monopoly on morality. In fact, I
argue that the majority of people in the blue states hold moral values
that make financing social programs that improve the poor's situation
more important than lower taxes. They hold moral values that recognize
honesty with the American people on issues of war and peace to be
important. They also hold moral values that place civil rights and due
process in our justice system to be sacred. All moral choices that the
president doesn't agree with me and about half the people that voted.

I am a left leaning centrist on social issues and consider myself to be
a fiscal conservative. When a Republican president irritates me this
much, I really am concerned for the country. After this election there
won't be much in terms of a moderating political force, and historically
that can lead to some pretty hairy situation.

-Aviv

I haven't done an analysis for this year yet (obviously, since the year
isn't over and the data isn't there yet) but I do have the numbers for the
2000 contest. Since we had essentially the same red/blue map, this is
still telling. The bottom line?

Total tax receipts from states that voted for each candidate, in
$millions:
Go $1,202,891,545
Bush: $873,151,976

The real analysis would be to determine what percentage of each state's tax
receipts were generated by people who work for the government, or who are on
the government dole.

Since people being paid by the government (employees, retirees, what have
you) do not generate any income in the purest sense, the "taxes" they "pay"
are entirely illusory. Same with anyone on the dole.

Re-do your figures, Aviv, taking this into account, and I think you'll see a
DRAMATIC reversal of your numbers.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Kerry and his wife paid a net 12% tax on their billions in income.

I can only assume that Gore voters are more willing to have the wool
pulled over their eyes.

Aviv Hod wrote:

Total tax receipts from states that voted for each candidate, in $millions:
Go $1,202,891,545
Bush: $873,151,976

"Aviv Hod" wrote in message
...
It irks me when I hear that this election was decided on values and
morals, suggesting that Bush has a monopoly on morality. In fact, I
argue that the majority of people in the blue states hold moral values
that make financing social programs that improve the poor's situation
more important than lower taxes.

Quite a few of those programs are solidly in the immoral category and are in
place simply to garner liberals votes come election day.

Aviv Hod wrote in message ...
cut

It irks me when I hear that this election was decided on values and
morals, suggesting that Bush has a monopoly on morality. In fact, I
argue that the majority of people in the blue states hold moral values
that make financing social programs that improve the poor's situation
more important than lower taxes. They hold moral values that recognize
honesty with the American people on issues of war and peace to be
important. They also hold moral values that place civil rights and due
process in our justice system to be sacred. All moral choices that the
president doesn't agree with me and about half the people that voted.

Look at a usual electoral map for 2004, say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:U...lCollege.p ng

And then this map of slave/free states and territories c1860:
http://www.learner.org/biographyofamerica/prog10/maps/

Damn near identical areas.

What moral values again? The USA would have been better off to let
the slavers seceed. They've been dragging the country down for
centuries: slavery, bigotry, and financially. And now they're
sticking us with idiots like Bush.

"David Brooks" wrote in message
One thing - one of so very many things - I learned in my five years of
flying is that partisan politics does not fit into the cockpit.

Well, for those that can't mix the two, that is. There are those rare folks
that are so set in their ways that there is no possible means of even
agreeing to disagree. I feel for those kinda people.

Some folks can chew cornbread and walk at the same time. Some can dip a
wing and still fly straight. Some can pat their head and rub their tummy at
the same time. I swear - I've seen all of this done!

Most folks can even have an occasional off-topic political conversation with
cyber-friends and remain friends.

And some . . . Can't do any of those. I hate it, David, but it's your loss,
bub.

--
Jim Fisher

See ya.

Perhaps France will serve you better.


"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
One thing - one of so very many things - I learned in my five years of
flying is that partisan politics does not fit into the cockpit. Most of my
flight instructors have, I know, been to the right of me politically. I
had
a most enjoyable flight with CJ - although he has since earned my undying
enmity by unapologetically using the term "Final Solution" in connection
with me and people like me, an astonishing thought coming from an avowedly
religious man, but telling and apt.

But now it seems the nation has, albeit by a slim margin, re-elected a
weak,
hypocritical, murderous coward. Three years ago, when some writers on the
left started talking about fascism, I thought that an absurd stretch. No
longer. The parallels are not precise - they never are - but the broad
sweep
and many of the components of a new fascist state are in place. The 48%
who
didn't vote for this disaster keep knocking on my consciousness, but they
are now feeble and impotent. The thugs are in charge.

That being so, and despite what should be an apolitical setting, I can no
longer in good faith keep company with a group of which the majority, I
know, has elected to deliver the country I love, and chose as my home,
into
the hands of Bush and his repressive, regressive masters.

So long. Thanks for all the conversations. You guys have made me a better
pilot.

-- David Brooks

Oh puhleeze.... spare us the piety. Now that "the nation has, albeit by a
slim margin, re-elected a weak, hypocritical, murderous coward" you are gonna
take your toys and go home.

Well good riddance. America was built by human beings of far stronger
character than you. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

David Brooks wrote:

One thing - one of so very many things - I learned in my five years of
flying is that partisan politics does not fit into the cockpit. Most of my
flight instructors have, I know, been to the right of me politically. I had
a most enjoyable flight with CJ - although he has since earned my undying
enmity by unapologetically using the term "Final Solution" in connection
with me and people like me, an astonishing thought coming from an avowedly
religious man, but telling and apt.

But now it seems the nation has, albeit by a slim margin, re-elected a weak,
hypocritical, murderous coward. Three years ago, when some writers on the
left started talking about fascism, I thought that an absurd stretch. No
longer. The parallels are not precise - they never are - but the broad sweep
and many of the components of a new fascist state are in place. The 48% who
didn't vote for this disaster keep knocking on my consciousness, but they
are now feeble and impotent. The thugs are in charge.

That being so, and despite what should be an apolitical setting, I can no
longer in good faith keep company with a group of which the majority, I
know, has elected to deliver the country I love, and chose as my home, into
the hands of Bush and his repressive, regressive masters.

So long. Thanks for all the conversations. You guys have made me a better
pilot.

-- David Brooks

See you in four ytears from now...
And we 'll see your ass...

Why wait four "ytears"... you can take a good look at my ass today if you like.

Nemo l'Ancien wrote:



See you in four ytears from now...
And we 'll see your ass...