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#161
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How could the Germans have produced enriched Unranium anyway? They
had no spare Electrical power, and they didn't have the haterials on hand to build anything above a laboratory scale that could handle UF6. Gas centrifuge seperation technology does not require a TVA. Urban Legends,before 1992 nobody knew or did not want to speak about SS nuclear program. Between 1945 and 1992 everbody talked about Heisenberg and his work,interestingly the word used for his work in 3rd Reich documents is "tarnforshung" f you can't spare the metals to build proper jet engines, you can't build an industrial plant that can handle Uranium Hexaflouride. S-projects had absolute priority over V-programs and jet fighters. Heck,we heard about S-programs only after the demise of Soviet Union. |
#162
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Britain alone was outproducing Germany in terms of aircraft, artillery
and tanks by 1943 Germany managed to produce around 14,000 Mk II & IV 5,000 Mk V and 2000 Mk VI Britain produced 28,000 tanks of all types Keith Thats true,but its equally true that the Britain of 1943 was very different from Britain of 2004. Britian of 1943 was an empire streching from North America to New Zealand and from British Isles to Indian Ocean and controlling the most of worlds raw material and human resources. Raw material and human resources controlled by British Crown in 1943 were even greater than resources controlled by US and USSR combined. You cannot even compare resources controlled by Germans with British controlled resources. |
#163
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#164
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... o, it would be a *good* bike. One that may allow you to win the race easier than your competition. Only if my competitors decide to enter race with another bike. But in your original post, you said that we stress quantity OVER quality. Opponents like Iraq,Serbia,Afghanistan,Panama,Vietnam,Or Grenada provide an excellent yardstick to measure the quality of US armed sevices. Even aganist such powerful, sophisticated and scientifically savvy opponents the performance of US is below expectations.(specially in Balkans). Iraq conflict proves something beyond any doubt,the quality of the personel is even lower than the weapons they use. Trailer parks are a reality of US and its armed forces. Without elevating the quality of population you cannot elevate the quality of armed forces. Our technology makes it possible to field limited numbers of assets if necessary (as a percent of the whole) and guarantee victory. First of there is no "our" technology.The Most of US technology is imported,either stolen or developed here by "imported" talent. US is famous for not being able to produce its own top notch scientific talent. Regarding technologies that are the reason of next paradigm shift in warfare, US is not even among top countries. Scientists in tiny Austria or Danemark are well ahead of well funded US scientists in understanding of the physics of these technologies. So if they wanted to become next "military" superpower of the world (very unlikely),they have good chances. Dont forget nations that produce excellent classical music composers,also produce excellent top notch scientists. US unfortunately produces only excellent rappers. People, this guy is baiting you all, no one could actually believe his crap. I doubt he does. Killfile this idiot and move on. T3 |
#165
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In message , Eunometic
writes "Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ... It was less tall than the Panther - you seem eager to damn that capable if overcomplicated German vehicle. Merely pointing out that the Allies made mistakes as well. Certainly, but not enough to lose. The Sherman I assert could have been a better tank if it had not of been designed for installation of an aircooled radial. With hindsight I'd have designed the Sherman lower, with a much better gun (the 17pdr is the best that comes to mind in the timeframe so we'll stick with that, but with a nice big turret ring so we can upgun later) and - crucially - wet ammunition stowage from the start. But, hindsight is easy. Personally, I'd go for 1.5 Shermans and make sure they were Fireflies. Personaly I'd go for a mix. With Panthers being the bulk No, not Panthers. Too heavy, too unreliable, too complicated. The 3 inch 17 pounder was a powerfull gun however from all accounts the APDS tungsten shot it needed to deal with Panthers and Tigers lost accuracy rapidly. Thus while the round still had penetraion at 500m it lost accuracy so much it was difficult to actualy obtain a hit. Curiously, interviews with the gunners who fired it reckoned that the 17pdr shot flat to a thousand yards and that one or two rounds were all that would be needed (the Archer crewman whose account I read, commented that they could usually kill what they fired at with the first shot out to a thousand yards, and that they displaced rapidly not to avoid returning direct fire but to evade artillery called on their position) Doesn't sound like inaccuracy was a gross problem. Of course, he was merely *using* the weapon in combat, so his opinions are naturally dubious. On the other hand without APDS it couldn't obtain penetration except at point blank range We *are* talking about the same 17pdr gun here, aren't we? -- When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. W S Churchill Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk |
#166
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In article ,
Chad Irby writes: In article , (Denyav) wrote: How could the Germans have produced enriched Unranium anyway? They had no spare Electrical power, and they didn't have the haterials on hand to build anything above a laboratory scale that could handle UF6. Gas centrifuge seperation technology does not require a TVA. Gas centrifuge technology to produce anything more than trivial amounts of enriched uranium in less than several years *does*. The Germans had about enough machinery on hand to produce enriched uranium for lab purposes, not for anything even vaguely like critical masses. It seems that he also missed teh point about the Germans not having the materiels at hand to be able to handle UF6 (Uranium Hexafluoride), which is a necessary step in the gaseus diffusion process, in industrial amounts. If you can't build high-temp turbine blades, you can't make a gaseus diffusion plant. The amount of U235 that they produced would just about fill a thimble. But then again, Den's always been talking through his tinfoil beanie. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
#167
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"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ... In message , Eunometic writes "Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ... It was less tall than the Panther - you seem eager to damn that capable if overcomplicated German vehicle. Merely pointing out that the Allies made mistakes as well. Certainly, but not enough to lose. The Sherman I assert could have been a better tank if it had not of been designed for installation of an aircooled radial. With hindsight I'd have designed the Sherman lower, with a much better gun (the 17pdr is the best that comes to mind in the timeframe so we'll stick with that, but with a nice big turret ring so we can upgun later) and - crucially - wet ammunition stowage from the start. I don't think that larger turret ring would have been required, based upon the Israeli Super Sherman effort that put a 105mm in its turret. Brooks But, hindsight is easy. Personally, I'd go for 1.5 Shermans and make sure they were Fireflies. Personaly I'd go for a mix. With Panthers being the bulk No, not Panthers. Too heavy, too unreliable, too complicated. The 3 inch 17 pounder was a powerfull gun however from all accounts the APDS tungsten shot it needed to deal with Panthers and Tigers lost accuracy rapidly. Thus while the round still had penetraion at 500m it lost accuracy so much it was difficult to actualy obtain a hit. Curiously, interviews with the gunners who fired it reckoned that the 17pdr shot flat to a thousand yards and that one or two rounds were all that would be needed (the Archer crewman whose account I read, commented that they could usually kill what they fired at with the first shot out to a thousand yards, and that they displaced rapidly not to avoid returning direct fire but to evade artillery called on their position) Doesn't sound like inaccuracy was a gross problem. Of course, he was merely *using* the weapon in combat, so his opinions are naturally dubious. On the other hand without APDS it couldn't obtain penetration except at point blank range We *are* talking about the same 17pdr gun here, aren't we? -- When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. W S Churchill Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk |
#168
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t seems that he also missed teh point about the Germans not having
the materiels at hand to be able to handle UF6 (Uranium Hexafluoride), which is a necessary step in the gaseus diffusion process, in industrial amounts. If you can't Urban legends prepared by our "great leaders" for the consum of our standardized minds. In reality Zippe designed gas zentrifuges,manufactured in special SS controlled parts of Degussa and Anschutz factories were achieving 30 % qffficiency . GUZ or Gaz-Ultra-Zentrifuge technology was the key of german nuclear advances and by the 1943 two GUZ cascades were in operation in SS controlled Berlin north and Skoda producing weapon grade Uran. S projects of 3rd Reich had absolute priority over everything else including V projects. But before 90s we did not even know that something called S projects existed in Nazi Germany much less its details,even though Eisenhower implied that in his book Crusade in Europa almost half century ago. |
#169
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"L'acrobat" wrote in message ...
"Eunometic" wrote in message om... "L'acrobat" wrote in message ... "Eunometic" wrote in message om... Most of the problems the German tanks had related to either teething problems that would be overcome, teething problems in manufacture and often simply inferior materials due to quality and shortages. You mean "Most of the problems the German tanks had related to reality". You also seem to be forgetting just how much the Germans were expecting from an already maxed out engine in most of their tanks, overstress it and it dies. There was no problem with the engines reliablity. Reliabillity problems related mainly to gearboxes and steering mechanisms on these Tanks and possibly the use of inferior raw materials. In anycase these are issues that are usually solved over 12 months. "The first "Tiger-B" tanks captured by Soviet forces were sent to the Chief Armored Vehicle Directorate's (GBTU) Armored Vehicle Research and Development proving ground (NIIBT) at Kubinka for comprehensive study. There were vehicles numbered 102 and 502. The very movement of these tanks to the loading station under their own power revealed numerous defects. At 86 kilometers, the left idler wheel went out of commission (when the bearings failed), as well as the left drive sprocket (when all the mounting bolts sheared). The high temperatures at the time, which reached 30 degrees Celsius (86 F), turned out to be too much for the cooling system. This led the right engine block to overheat and to continual overheating in the gearbox. The tank was repaired, but after that the right side running gear had completely failed. It was replaced with one scavenged from another tank, but this one almost immediately went out of commission again when the drive shaft roller bearings failed. Besides this, time and again it was necessary to change the track's elements, which were constantly breaking (cracking) due to the tank's colossal weight, especially when the vehicle was turning. The design of the track tensioning mechanism hadn't been completely perfected. As a result, the tension had to be adjusted after every 10-15 km of travel. " Overheated engine block? - still it broke down often enough from other causes, the engine had time to cool back down. yep, no engine problems there. http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger2.htm Numerous statements have been made that the Tiger II was too heavy, too big, too slow, "a casemate", etc. One is left with the impression that it was lucky to move at all. These banal generalities, stated as incontrovertible facts, are never substantiated by actual specifications, test reports or after-action accounts from the units that used the Tiger II. In spite of these frequently repeated remarks, the capability of the Tiger II to negotiate obstacles and cross terrain was equivalent to or better than most German and allied tanks. The Tiger II initially experienced numerous automotive problems which required a continuous series of minor modifications to correct. These problems can be traced to two main causes: leaking seals and gaskets and an over taxed drive train originally designed for a 40 metric ton vehicle. The problem of keeping a Tiger II in running condition was compounded by a shortage of skilled drivers many of whom may have never experienced driving any vehicle prior to entering the service. In addition they were provided only limited driver's training, and then usually on a different type of panzer, and received their own Tiger II usually within a few days before being shipped to the front. But, with mature drivers, taking required maintenance halts, and modification of key automotive components, the Tiger II could be maintained in a satisfactory operational condition. Status reports from the Western Front, dated March 1945, showed that the percentage of Tigers operational at the Front was about equal to the PzKpfw IV and as good as or better than the Panther. |
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