Busting airspace question

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if a student wanders off course and
clips the inside of a class B ring. I've heard stories of the FAA waiting
for violators at the airport.



If these stories are true, how does ATC figure out who the pilot/aircraft is
and which airport to find them? What if you were squawking 1200 and landed
at a non-towered airport?



How serious is this infraction and what generally happens to the hapless
pilot?



Dallas

If it is a serious enough violation.. they will track the aircraft by radar
as far as possible, and many times they will call ahead and have some
authority type waiting, or calling into to the Class D Tower. But you said
uncontrolled field.

If it is a mere clipping and he was not "eyeballed" by another aircraft for
a description and n-number, by landing at a non-towered it field may be
difficult to prove. Of course, a lot of Class B airspace may have local
police air units on frequency, and if the air unit is free, and the
violation serious enough, they may ask the air unit to intercept to at least
gather an n-number or steer the violator away from the dense airspace.

BT

"Dallas" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Hypothetically speaking, what happens if a student wanders off course and
clips the inside of a class B ring. I've heard stories of the FAA
waiting for violators at the airport.



If these stories are true, how does ATC figure out who the pilot/aircraft
is and which airport to find them? What if you were squawking 1200 and
landed at a non-towered airport?



How serious is this infraction and what generally happens to the hapless
pilot?



Dallas

On Jan 31, 4:33 pm, "Dallas" wrote:
Hypothetically speaking, what happens if a student wanders off course and
clips the inside of a class B ring. I've heard stories of the FAA waiting
for violators at the airport.

If these stories are true, how does ATC figure out who the pilot/aircraft is
and which airport to find them? What if you were squawking 1200 and landed
at a non-towered airport?

How serious is this infraction and what generally happens to the hapless
pilot?


A friend of mine got a 30 day suspension and a bad record for 5 years
on his solo cross country. Personally, I require my students to use
flight following in case they get into the class C by mistake.
-Robert

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:33:45 -0800, Dallas wrote
(in article k.net):

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if a student wanders off course and
clips the inside of a class B ring. I've heard stories of the FAA waiting
for violators at the airport.


Nothing, to the student. His instructor is another matter. If the FAA finds
that the instructor was negligent in teaching his student, then they may take
any action from warning him to taking away his certificates.



If these stories are true, how does ATC figure out who the pilot/aircraft is
and which airport to find them? What if you were squawking 1200 and landed
at a non-towered airport?


They can't, usually. They might call someone at the non-towered airport and
watch for people landing there if it looks like you are headed that way.



How serious is this infraction and what generally happens to the hapless
pilot?


Usually nothing, unless you forced an airliner to take evasive action. Then
there will be an investigation and heads could roll. I have known a few
pilots who have inadvertently clipped class B. The FAA tends to be more
severe with people who should know better. Sometimes they are required to fly
with an instructor and get retraining. If it causes an accident, you could
easily lose all your certificates and you will be sued by just about
everyone. You will go bankrupt. Your instructor will deny having ever met
you. Homeland Security will brand you a terrorist. You will lose your home,
your family and they might even shoot your dog.



--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Dallas wrote:

How serious is this infraction and what generally happens to the hapless
pilot?

As far as barely clipping airspace, I know folks who have _just_ by a
hair clipped BOS & NY, and were not pursued. Personally, I contact them
well clear of the space and ask for clearance if I'm anywhere near the
edge, as I really don't want to poke at the beast.

What's probably worse is popping up through the floor, or suddenly
showing up some other way.

I am personally familiar with someone who was cut loose from a VFR
flight following and told to squawk VFR by NYC Bravo controllers, while
INSIDE Newark's inner-ring airspace, on approach to Linden, NJ.

Newark Tower called Linden and they had Newark on the phone when he
walked into the FBO.

Lucky for him, the conversation started off like this:

Caller: "Did those MF'er's (ref: NY Bravo control) do what we think they
did?"
Pilot: "Yes"
Caller" (in background) "Get those a--holes on the phone!" (back to
phone) "If that _ever_ happens again, fly directly over the center of
the field and contact the tower"

Apparently, an airliner had to go around due to his Piper Arrow zipping
right through the space as a 1200. The pilot filed a NASA form.

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 05:15:36 -0800, B A R R Y wrote
(in article ):

Dallas wrote:

How serious is this infraction and what generally happens to the hapless
pilot?

As far as barely clipping airspace, I know folks who have _just_ by a
hair clipped BOS & NY, and were not pursued. Personally, I contact them
well clear of the space and ask for clearance if I'm anywhere near the
edge, as I really don't want to poke at the beast.

What's probably worse is popping up through the floor, or suddenly
showing up some other way.

I am personally familiar with someone who was cut loose from a VFR
flight following and told to squawk VFR by NYC Bravo controllers, while
INSIDE Newark's inner-ring airspace, on approach to Linden, NJ.

Newark Tower called Linden and they had Newark on the phone when he
walked into the FBO.

Lucky for him, the conversation started off like this:

Caller: "Did those MF'er's (ref: NY Bravo control) do what we think they
did?"
Pilot: "Yes"
Caller" (in background) "Get those a--holes on the phone!" (back to
phone) "If that _ever_ happens again, fly directly over the center of
the field and contact the tower"

Apparently, an airliner had to go around due to his Piper Arrow zipping
right through the space as a 1200. The pilot filed a NASA form.

This is a great example of why you don't blindly follow ATC instructions. I
think the proper response would have been, "Say again? We are still inside
the Bravo."

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Jan 31, 9:57 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jan 31, 4:33 pm, "Dallas" wrote:


A friend of mine got a 30 day suspension and a bad record for 5 years
on his solo cross country. Personally, I require my students to use
flight following in case they get into the class C by mistake.
-Robert

Robert,
A 30 day suspension for what?Did he contest this in court?What
happened to his instructor?
How does using flight following absolve you from guilt when you
violate a reg?
KM

"alice" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jan 31, 9:57 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
Personally, I require my students to use
flight following in case they get into the class C by mistake.


How does using flight following absolve you from guilt when you
violate a reg?

When using flight following, you've met the requirement to enter class C (2
way comminucations)

C J Campbell wrote:
This is a great example of why you don't blindly follow ATC instructions. I
think the proper response would have been, "Say again? We are still inside
the Bravo."

While flying from HOU to AXH, I've had the tower quite a few times turn
me loose and tell me to squawk 1200 a few miles before being clear of
the Class-B... I guess they figure that on a flight on a straight out
radial from the airport, it's not like I'm going to make any abrupt
course changes in the next minute or so...

On the other hand, I've had controllers keep me until I was well out of
the Class-B and I had to remind them to let me go...

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 08:47:01 -0800, Grumman-581 wrote
(in article ):

C J Campbell wrote:
This is a great example of why you don't blindly follow ATC instructions. I
think the proper response would have been, "Say again? We are still inside
the Bravo."

While flying from HOU to AXH, I've had the tower quite a few times turn
me loose and tell me to squawk 1200 a few miles before being clear of
the Class-B... I guess they figure that on a flight on a straight out
radial from the airport, it's not like I'm going to make any abrupt
course changes in the next minute or so...

On the other hand, I've had controllers keep me until I was well out of
the Class-B and I had to remind them to let me go...

Yeah, we get that sort of thing in Seattle, too.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor