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GNS430 on the Airway



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 8th 06, 02:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 00:10:13 GMT, wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways
is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high
traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns
you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it
leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would
just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I
was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday.

-Robert

The present 400/500s don't have enough memory. The so-called WAAS mod
will provide a whole lot horsepower. I suspect then they could provide
an airway database, but they sure ain't talking.


Garmin doesn't care about airways and thinks they're obsolete in the
GPS direct world. They don't even have them in the G1000 system and
have said they aren't planning on adding it, and that box likely has
as much if not more power than the WAAS upgrades will have. It really
is unfortunate, it shouldn't be that hard to have flight plan routing
a-la Honeywell FMS systems (waypoint, airway, waypoint, have the box
fill in the intermediate points) in these boxes, especially when the
design is done from the ground up and could include that functionality
with apparently not much additional work.
  #12  
Old February 8th 06, 02:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

Peter Clark wrote:
Garmin doesn't care about airways and thinks they're obsolete in the
GPS direct world. They don't even have them in the G1000 system and
have said they aren't planning on adding it


Wow, that really blows my mind. They've got it in the 480 (via the
Apollo/UPSAT acquisition), and it's one of the best features of that box.
It's staggering that they left it out of the G1000.

Garmin may thing airways are obsolete, but nobody's told ATC about that
yet, at least not around where I fly.
  #13  
Old February 8th 06, 02:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Personally, I think
they underestimated the importance of it because the guys back east
don't have mountains and therefor don't often fly airways when GPS
equipped. Out here, the airways is what threads you through the pass.


With regards to airways and the northeast US, your statement is not true.
Traffic volume and ATC flow result in all IFR traffic being routed over
victor airways. Direct between most of the major airports is only given
after midnight and before 6:00am.

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years?

Matt Barrow



  #14  
Old February 8th 06, 04:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years


Next few years? Where did you get this timeframe?

--
Peter
  #15  
Old February 8th 06, 05:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years


Next few years? Where did you get this timeframe?


He's making it up. Even if he substituted "years" for "decades," it still
would probably be too soon.

Marco



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  #16  
Old February 8th 06, 05:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

But the workaround is very easy... if V123 goes throug the abc bca and cab
VOR's then you creat the flight plan wiht waypoints at each vor or
intersection on the route.


That struggle is reasonable as you sit at the runup writing down your
clearance. However, when you are in flight, in very busy airspace, and
have controllers that enjoy updating routing airway assignments by the
dozen things start to break down. Just the fact that you are suggesting
to grab your enroute chart to figure out the waypoints shows how old
this technology feels.
My other problem with the solution you and others have pointed out is
that it has the potential to be very dangerous. Many airways have
multiple turns, some slight when flying in mountain areas. Having to
figure out all the bends on the enroute chart and then program each
turn into the GPS is as modern as dead rec. My 1990's King handheld did
better than that, as does the $80 GPS that plugs into my PDA and does
airway routing.


-Robert

  #17  
Old February 8th 06, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight
plan with every intersection and VOR? Is there an article or study somewhere
that includes metrics to back it up? For example, "a non-WAAS GPS-derived
line direct btween two intersection xx miles away will differ from the
airway between those same two intersections by x.x statute miles." How do
the error allowances play into this?

Marco

"nooneimportant" wrote in message
news:gPgGf.57025$V.55301@fed1read04...
But the workaround is very easy... if V123 goes throug the abc bca and cab
VOR's then you creat the flight plan wiht waypoints at each vor or
intersection on the route. If you are off airway and choose to fly TO the
airway, simply go to the FPL screen, select teh NEXT fix on the plan and
activate the leg. Your CDI will be in relation to that leg, not a direct
line to the fix.

Tho i do wish you could simply put AIRPORTA D- abcVOR-V123-cabVORD D-
AIRPORTB. But it only saves a few entries on most flights. And in reality
I've NEVER gotten what i was cleared for IFR wise when i filed /G.... I
MIGHT get to the second fix, then its "Proceed Direct AIRPORTB" or

something
similar that cuts off about 20 minutes of flying time.




"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways
is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high
traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns
you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it
leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would
just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I
was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday.

-Robert








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  #18  
Old February 8th 06, 10:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight
plan with every intersection and VOR?


If you miss entering one of the bends in the airway it could be 20 or
30 miles off. The point is that you are now back to the 1970's,
grabbing your enroute chart and trying to figure out all the airway
bends when you could have a 1990's handheld GPS (King Skymap IIIC) and
it would do it all for you.

-Robert

  #19  
Old February 8th 06, 10:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

in these boxes, especially when the
design is done from the ground up and could include that functionality
with apparently not much additional work. '


The nav function of the G1000 is certainly the ground up though. Its
100% a GNS 430. If you look on the right side of the panel there is a
group of buttons that control the nav functions. These buttons are the
same as the buttons on the bottom of the 430 (OBS, Proc, etc). In fact,
the only difference I can find between the G1000 and the GNS 430 is
that when you do a course reversal on approach, you must 'unsuspend'
the 430 to begin the inbound leg, where the G1000 automatically does
this.

-Robert

  #20  
Old February 9th 06, 04:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

Marco Leon mmleonyahoo.com wrote:

He's making it up. Even if he substituted "years" for "decades," it still
would probably be too soon.


After reading Matt's posts for a year or more and giving this comment some
extra thought, I now think he was being sarcastic.

--
Peter
 




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