PC flight sim for training?

On 01/16/2006 12:10 PM, Denny wrote:
This is an old thread I stumbled across... Wanted to mention ASA's, ON
TOP, IFR proficiency simulator... I also have FS2004Pro, but I prefer
the instrument panel that ON TOP has...
Besides, this is IFR practice, why are we rating sims on how realistic
the scenery is?

Anyway, I fly IFR in an old Apache, which is not on either sim, so I
simply dial up a Bonanza or a Baron and use that... And I do not have a
yoke, just use a joy stick... I do not notice the differences when
getting in the real airplane... My reflexes are geared to accomodate
the cockpit I'm in at themoment... It is procedures that need
repetition, not power settings, joy stick versus yoke, etc...

cheers ... denny


The problem I have with the simulators (I use MS FS 2004) is that
the yoke doesn't really represent the trimmed-out speed of the airplane
(in that if you let go of the yoke/stick, the airplane will do what it
is trimmed to do).

As a result, I spend a lot of time getting the trim set to the point
where the attitude will remain relatively constant. This can be really
irritating when changing configuration (like when entering a holding
pattern after cruise flight).

I wonder if there is a way to tell the simulator to manage the trim
a little better? I've looked some ... need to look more.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

On 1/16/2006 2:21 PM, Mark Hansen wrote the following:

I wonder if there is a way to tell the simulator to manage the trim
a little better? I've looked some ... need to look more.

ASA's IP Trainer does not do it. Elite doesn't do it. PFC yokes do feel pretty
reak-world, though, unlike the cheapies.

I have had some time in a Frasca and in it, too, pitch control was a PITA. I've
been told that pretty much all simulators are bad at this.

Denny wrote:

Besides, this is IFR practice, why are we rating sims on how realistic
the scenery is?

Because at some point you pop below the layer and land visually? ;-)

--
Peter

"Mitty" wrote in message ...

On 1/16/2006 2:21 PM, Mark Hansen wrote the following:

I wonder if there is a way to tell the simulator to manage the trim
a little better? I've looked some ... need to look more.

ASA's IP Trainer does not do it. Elite doesn't do it. PFC yokes do feel pretty
reak-world, though, unlike the cheapies.

I have had some time in a Frasca and in it, too, pitch control was a PITA. I've
been told that pretty much all simulators are bad at this.

Yes.
I've logged time in the old WW2-era, vacuum-driven Link Trainers.
They were easy to hate, too, for the same reason.

Simulators are designed to not fully trim to a stable
a/s-heading, the design parameter is to make the pilots fly.

If you can fly a simulator, whether it is a basic PC based
software job or a $10,000,000 full motion, full visual state
of the art jet, the airplane will be easy.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
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But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
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See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
| On 01/16/2006 12:10 PM, Denny wrote:
| This is an old thread I stumbled across... Wanted to
mention ASA's, ON
| TOP, IFR proficiency simulator... I also have
FS2004Pro, but I prefer
| the instrument panel that ON TOP has...
| Besides, this is IFR practice, why are we rating sims on
how realistic
| the scenery is?
|
| Anyway, I fly IFR in an old Apache, which is not on
either sim, so I
| simply dial up a Bonanza or a Baron and use that... And
I do not have a
| yoke, just use a joy stick... I do not notice the
differences when
| getting in the real airplane... My reflexes are geared
to accomodate
| the cockpit I'm in at themoment... It is procedures that
need
| repetition, not power settings, joy stick versus yoke,
etc...
|
| cheers ... denny
|
|
| The problem I have with the simulators (I use MS FS 2004)
is that
| the yoke doesn't really represent the trimmed-out speed of
the airplane
| (in that if you let go of the yoke/stick, the airplane
will do what it
| is trimmed to do).
|
| As a result, I spend a lot of time getting the trim set to
the point
| where the attitude will remain relatively constant. This
can be really
| irritating when changing configuration (like when entering
a holding
| pattern after cruise flight).
|
| I wonder if there is a way to tell the simulator to manage
the trim
| a little better? I've looked some ... need to look more.
|
|
| --
| Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
| Sacramento, CA

That makes them better trainers, you have to scan and fly
all the time.


"Mitty" wrote in message
...
|
|
| On 1/16/2006 2:21 PM, Mark Hansen wrote the following:
|
| I wonder if there is a way to tell the simulator to
manage the trim
| a little better? I've looked some ... need to look more.
|
| ASA's IP Trainer does not do it. Elite doesn't do it.
PFC yokes do feel pretty
| reak-world, though, unlike the cheapies.
|
| I have had some time in a Frasca and in it, too, pitch
control was a PITA. I've
| been told that pretty much all simulators are bad at this.

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 01/16/2006 12:10 PM, Denny wrote:

This is an old thread I stumbled across... Wanted to mention ASA's, ON
TOP, IFR proficiency simulator... I also have FS2004Pro, but I prefer
the instrument panel that ON TOP has...
Besides, this is IFR practice, why are we rating sims on how realistic
the scenery is?

Anyway, I fly IFR in an old Apache, which is not on either sim, so I
simply dial up a Bonanza or a Baron and use that... And I do not have a
yoke, just use a joy stick... I do not notice the differences when
getting in the real airplane... My reflexes are geared to accomodate
the cockpit I'm in at themoment... It is procedures that need
repetition, not power settings, joy stick versus yoke, etc...

cheers ... denny


The problem I have with the simulators (I use MS FS 2004) is that
the yoke doesn't really represent the trimmed-out speed of the airplane
(in that if you let go of the yoke/stick, the airplane will do what it
is trimmed to do).

As a result, I spend a lot of time getting the trim set to the point
where the attitude will remain relatively constant. This can be really
irritating when changing configuration (like when entering a holding
pattern after cruise flight).

I wonder if there is a way to tell the simulator to manage the trim
a little better? I've looked some ... need to look more.


It's been a while since I've used my copy of On Top but there is a
feature called 'auto trim' that I map to one of the buttons on the
joystick. (That's the way I remember it, anyway.) I put the nose where
I want it, press the button, and it's trimmed. Let's me focus on the
things that I need to practice.

Tom

The problem I have with the simulators (I use MS FS 2004) is that
the yoke doesn't really represent the trimmed-out speed of the airplane
(in that if you let go of the yoke/stick, the airplane will do what it
is trimmed to do).

As a result, I spend a lot of time getting the trim set to the point
where the attitude will remain relatively constant. This can be really
irritating when changing configuration (like when entering a holding
pattern after cruise flight).

I prefer a simple gamepad-style controller for my IFR sim. The left
thumb is the joystick for elevator and aileron. The right thumb uses
the four buttons which are set for throttle-increment,
throttle-decrement, elevator-trim-increment, and
elevator-trim-decrement.

This works well for me in MSFS and X-Plane. Doesn't work in OnTop or
IPTrainer because they use their idiotic non-standard drivers which are
not nearly as flexible nor reliable.

Turn turbulence way up to improve your scan. Add thunderstorms for
pretty visual effects.

--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

I've got over 30 hours in the Frasca and have never had problems
setting the trim. In fact one of the instructors (I've taken the
courses at the local college) used to chide me for flying entire
practice sequences (45 minutes) with nothing but the trim for
everything other than the takeoff.

We've got 4 ATPs (is that the right company?) but I haven't
had a chance to use those yet. They're for the multi students.

I've got FS2002 and have never been able to get trim to work
properly.

"Mitty" wrote in message
...


On 1/16/2006 2:21 PM, Mark Hansen wrote the following:

I wonder if there is a way to tell the simulator to manage the trim
a little better? I've looked some ... need to look more.

ASA's IP Trainer does not do it. Elite doesn't do it. PFC yokes do feel
pretty
reak-world, though, unlike the cheapies.

I have had some time in a Frasca and in it, too, pitch control was a PITA.
I've
been told that pretty much all simulators are bad at this.

f0r MS FS2004 take a look at the following from NG
alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim
It's not real but it seems to vastly improve the time it takes to trim.

RealTrim 0.9
http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=realtrim-0-9.zip

RealTrim is a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004(tm) Module. Activated via
key-press it converts the current elevator deflection into trim as the
sim-pilot moves the yoke forward or backwards. This maps closely to
trimming an airplane in real-life where pressure on the elevator felt
through the yoke is trimmed out by the pilot operating a trim wheel. As
the sim-pilot smoothly moves the joystick into neutral position,
RealTrim automatically adjusts the elevator trim so the airplane stays
in its current pitch configuration. This mechanism is superior to
moving the joystick into neutral while tapping a trim-key or moving a
trim-axis. That's because moving the joystick's axis and modifying trim
are not linked to each other and especially difficult in the case of
tapping a trim-key.

Filename: realtrim-0-9.zip
License: Freeware, limited distribution
Added: 24th January 2006
Downloads: 32
Author: Nils Meier
Size: 22kb