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Can a Private Pilot tow gliders and get paid?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 15th 04, 05:58 PM
zatatime
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Default Can a Private Pilot tow gliders and get paid?

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:36:43 -0400, Todd Pattist
wrote:

I note that Mr. Lynch's comments are not definitive and he's
been wrong before



How can the guy who wrote 61 be wrong about the interpretation of 61?

z

(This ia a rhetorical question, I just found it ammusing.)
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  #2  
Old October 15th 04, 06:36 PM
Ron Natalie
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zatatime wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:36:43 -0400, Todd Pattist
wrote:


I note that Mr. Lynch's comments are not definitive and he's
been wrong before




How can the guy who wrote 61 be wrong about the interpretation of 61?

Because first, much of Part 61 predates Mr. Lynch's meddling with it.
Second, the rules were NOT enacted as he wrote them but substantially
revised during the rulemaking process. Third, his opinion bears no
offical weight. To get an official opinion you need a decision from
the FAA Legal Counsel's office (which has rightfully disagreed with the
FAQ). Even ALJ decisions don't form a precedent in the morass which
is the FAA enforcement system. The NTSB appeals do, but the FAA still
tries to ignore them.
  #3  
Old October 16th 04, 05:41 AM
BTIZ
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I'll agree that a Private Pilot cannot be compensated monetarily for towing
services rendered, he may log PIC time towards additional ratings while
towing.

I'll also agree that 61.113 is very confusing.. but para (g) says he can act
as PIC, it does not say be can be compensated.

The insurance companies tend to rule ... Those that I have dealt with state
that a Commercial Glider Operation, collecting fees from a ride passenger,
require a Commercial rated power pilot in the tow plane.

BT

"Todd Pattist" wrote in message
...
Many people are aware of the history surrounding the old
waiver for a private pilot ASEL to tow gliders at a glider
club. Without going into detail, it related to the issue of
whether logging time was prohibited "compensation."

To fix that "problem," 61.113 was amended to add section (g)
which simply said "(g) A private pilot who meets the
requirements of Sec. 61.69 of this part may act as pilot in
command of an aircraft towing a glider."

Of course that simple statement was already "true" since a
private pilot who met the 61.69 requirements already had
the right to tow. The purpose of the change was supposedly
to do away with the waiver, but the way they wrote it was
IMHO, a royal screw-up since the preamble in 61.113(a) said:

"(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of
this section, no person who holds a private pilot
certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that
is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire;
nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot
in command of an aircraft."

By allowing a pilot to act as PIC under the (g) exception
the regs now allowed him to get out of the prohibitions of
acting as PIC or receiving compensation while acting as PIC
under (a). Thus, he could tow commercially and get paid.

The Part 61 FAQ said this:

"QUESTION: I have reviewed your question in which you asked
whether a private pilot may receive compensation while
towing gliders, in accordance with the new 61.113(g).

ANSWER: The answer is no, a private pilot may not receive
compensation for towing a glider.

The intent, and the wording of the new 61.113(g), was to
permit a private pilot who meets the requirements of 61.69
of this part to ". . . act as pilot in command of an
aircraft towing a glider" for the purpose of logging pilot
in command (PIC) time. The new rule was never intended to
conflict with the FAA's long standing legal interpretations
and policies on compensation for private pilots. And the
wording of the new 61.113(g) only addresses the issue that
permits a private pilot to ". . . act as pilot in command of
an aircraft towing a glider" for the purpose of permitting a
private pilot to log pilot in command time. As you recall,
the wording of the old 61.69 permitted a private pilot to
act as a PIC but was moot on logging the time. The new
61.113(g) was issued to correct it.
However, we agree the wording of the new 61.113(a) may be
confusing. In the next go-around on correcting some of the
wording mistakes, we have recorded it as a candidate for
correction to conform the intent and the wording of
61.113(g)."

I note that Mr. Lynch's comments are not definitive and he's
been wrong before. Some authority in the FAA disagreed with
his comment here, and I don't know if it's still in the FAQ,
nor whether an authoritative interpretation from the Chief
Counsel's Office has been issued. However, I DO note that
we have gone through a second rewrite of Part 61 for the
Sport Pilot and they changed 61.113(g).

Interestingly, they did *not* put in the "for the purpose of
permitting a private pilot to log pilot in command time"
language that Mr. Lynch tried to add above. Specifically,
it now simply says:

"(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of 61.69
may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider
or unpowered ultralight vehicle."

Looks to me like the rules are clear - a private pilot can
be compensated for towing commercially. Your towplane
insurance company may disagree :-)

Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)



  #4  
Old October 17th 04, 01:35 AM
Pete Brown
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BTIZ wrote:
I'll agree that a Private Pilot cannot be compensated monetarily for towing
services rendered, he may log PIC time towards additional ratings while
towing.


Why do you say that a private pilot can not be compensated
for towing? 61.113 reads exactly as follows:

Section 61.113: Private pilot privileges and limitations:
Pilot in command.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this
section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may
act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying
passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may
that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in
command of an aircraft.

61.113 (a) says what you can not do (carrying pax or
property for compensation or acting as PIC for compensation
or hire) and then specifically carves out the exceptions
to the prohibition as noted in 61.113(b) through (g). 61.113
(g) is the exception that permits glider towing.

61.113(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of
61.69 may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft towing a
glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.

I agree that the insurance company rather than the FARs may
be the more limiting factor.


--

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/



 




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