National Records, why are there not two categories?

So, Seems like I remember hearing that the rules had changed some years back, but why aren't there two categories of National soaring records? One category would be for flights that originate within the pilot's home country. The second would be for flights which originate in another country. For example, US National records set in Argentina... There will never be a level playing field in terms of the financial resources that can be brought to bear, but it's going to be a precious few that can afford to make the investment into trip(s) to Argentina or other remote locations. Rather than say only one or the other should be allowed, why not separate them into the two obvious categories? This rewards those who do make the additional effort to get to those locations and also preserves records for those who would attempt a task at home where the soaring conditions may not be the same?

Just pondering...

Why are there not handicaps on these records? For example, a 500km FAI triangle in flatland (east coast or midwest especially) is worth far more than 1200 km down the ridges or at 18k out west... ;-) Am I right or am I right?


On Monday, March 3, 2014 9:40:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
So, Seems like I remember hearing that the rules had changed some years back, but why aren't there two categories of National soaring records? One category would be for flights that originate within the pilot's home country. The second would be for flights which originate in another country. For example, US National records set in Argentina... There will never be a level playing field in terms of the financial resources that can be brought to bear, but it's going to be a precious few that can afford to make the investment into trip(s) to Argentina or other remote locations. Rather than say only one or the other should be allowed, why not separate them into the two obvious categories? This rewards those who do make the additional effort to get to those locations and also preserves records for those who would attempt a task at home where the soaring conditions may not be the same?



Just pondering...

I too have an interest in this topic. I am assuming that you are referencing the National and World Altitude Records? First off, the National Altitude Record for single place gliders is still held by Bob Harris...not Fossett and Einvoldson. Their record was set in a multi- place glider. Bob Harris set his record back in 1986 flying out of California City and that record stands to this day. I concur with your concern about a record that was set in Argentina being a U.S. National Record. You would think that it should have occurred in the United States to count as a U.S. Record.

Another item that has bothered me about this is that Fossett and Einvoldson benefitted from borrowing Pressure Suits from NASA. How many ordinary glider pilots are going to be able to borrow Pressure Suits from NASA when they want to attempt to break these records? I would like to believe that NASA would treat all such requests from U.S. Citizens fairly and equally but I have my doubts. Don't even think about purchasing your own if finances are a concern!

The bigger challenge, I think, would be obtaining ATC clearance into the airspace in the Owens Valley when the conditions are right and when you need it. If you can work that out with the FAA and ATC, then you would at least have a shot at it. Then the finances challenge rears it's ugly head again. You essentially need to live there and be available to fly 7 days a week. Remember, Bob Harris checked weather every day for five years before making his record setting flight. That was dedication personified!

Then there is the Perlan Project which, if successful, will put the World Altitude Record out of reach for good but, again, that is a multi-place glider...not single-place. So that leaves the Harris Record in-tact for the rest of us Adventurers to dream about. I share your interest but given all of the challenges and obstacles to overcome, I'm not sure that anyone will be able to successfully challenge the Harris record. However, it is still there and possible...

Brian K. Lott

On Monday, March 3, 2014 9:19:01 PM UTC-6, Sean F (F2) wrote:
Why are there not handicaps on these records? For example, a 500km FAI triangle in flatland (east coast or midwest especially) is worth far more than 1200 km down the ridges or at 18k out west... ;-) Am I right or am I right?

There are handicaps, Sean. They are called "State Records". :-)

I don't think any of this record business is fair, right, or productive.

Granting a record is like telling someone, "You are the BEST!". Just think what this does to the rest of us, the devastating effect it has on our still developing egos, feelings of self-worth, and confidence levels. By saying, "You done good" to the few, we are backhanding the many and putting us on the road to welfare, food stamps, and ultimate failure.

What I'd like to see is for "all of us to be winners"! When we land and open that cockpit there should be a pretty young lass to throw a flower leis around our neck, kiss us on both cheeks, and say, "Wowser, that was a GREAT flight!". Yeah, that'd be good!

bumper

And yet again, we get words of brilliance from bumper...

Thank you.

Boggs

What I'd like to see is for "all of us to be winners"! When we land and open that cockpit there should be a pretty young lass to throw a flower leis around our neck, kiss us on both cheeks, and say, "Wowser, that was a GREAT flight!". Yeah, that'd be good!

This doesn't happen where you fly?

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 7:26:53 PM UTC-8, SteveB_Z5 wrote:



This doesn't happen where you fly?

Guess I'm not sure. My cockpit always smells like barf. Think that could be the problem?

At Minden, NV, we have a church on the departure end of 30. To keep yin and yang in balance, I've always thought there should be a satellite branch of the Moonlight Bunny Ranch for the other end. Could be a handy source of pay-as-you-go paddock girls (ramp rabbits?). . . hmmm.

bumper

On Monday, March 3, 2014 9:40:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
So, Seems like I remember hearing that the rules had changed some years back, but why aren't there two categories of National soaring records? One category would be for flights that originate within the pilot's home country. The second would be for flights which originate in another country. For example, US National records set in Argentina... There will never be a level playing field in terms of the financial resources that can be brought to bear, but it's going to be a precious few that can afford to make the investment into trip(s) to Argentina or other remote locations. Rather than say only one or the other should be allowed, why not separate them into the two obvious categories? This rewards those who do make the additional effort to get to those locations and also preserves records for those who would attempt a task at home where the soaring conditions may not be the same?



Just pondering...

Buy a 1-26 and go after the 1-26 records. Those are national records too and they are quite breakable . This way you don't have to buy a pressure suit or a $500,000 glider...

Best Regards,
Daniel Sazhin

Buy a 1-26 and go after the 1-26 records. Those are national records too and they are quite breakable . This way you don't have to buy a pressure suit or a $500,000 glider...

Best Regards,

Daniel Sazhin

I guess I'm just curious how it got to this point. The rules for state records say you need to take off within the state (you can land across state lines) you are claiming the record in. Seems like it used to be a requirement that for a US record you should take off within the country where the record was claimed. Seems like a reasonable distinction to have US and OUS categories.