Flying for hire Q

No, don't trust the insurance company to interpret FARs. Their insurance
requirements and interpretation are different than those of the FAA, but
obviously you will want to ensure compliance of both.

For example, I considered renting my plane to a friend to take flying
lessons - this is a non-issue as far as the FAA is concerned, but was
considered a "commercial" operation by the insurer and required a changes to
the policy.


"Flighthawk" wrote in message
...
You are going to run into some gray legal areas here. In the past some
flights like this have been construed by the FAA as part 135 flights,
especially if your non-flying friend decides to take another passenger
along
on the flight who thinks its a charter. The best thing to do is check with
your insurance company to make sure. They will make sure everything fits
right. Let us know what they say.

PD


"Stuart King" wrote in message
. com...
I own my airplane.

A friend needs to go somewhere, but is not a pilot.

He can legally use my aircraft without me in it if :

1. He hires an appropriately rated commercial pilot...and

2. Pays all "direct" operating costs for the flight (gas, oil, landing
fees)...and

3. He does not pay me anything.

Yes/No/Other ?

Stuart

Don't bother asking the insurance companies anything. All they do is repeat
"commercial operations are not covered." Their attitude is "read the
f*cking policy" and take your chances in court, if heaven forbid it comes to
that. The flack that takes your call has neither the authority nor the
knowledge to go beyond that, and this has been drilled into his brain if he
has been there longer than a few days.

When there is a serious doubt in your mind about coverage, and it is go/no
go based on coverage, your only recourse is to ask for a confirmation in
writing that the proposed operation is not commercial. Don't be surprised
if you get the answer it is commercial and not covered. The additional ins.
co. attitude is why should we increase our exposure for no additional money?
If we play it conservative and strict, he might not fly and that's one more
risk we have avoided. Sorry to rain on the original poster's parade, but I
have been down
this road several times before, and the ins. cos. are not interested in
quality of service and customer satisfaction in a doubtful coverage
situation.

Example, here in this or maybe the owning news group somebody wanted someone
to ferry his plane down to its soon to be new owner in my city. I said I'd
do it, just for the fun of it and $150 a day. That $150 would come close to
compensating me for my time compared to my day job, but is the going rate
for ferry services. But I was not about to do it unless there was insurance
coverage. The owner had the usual pleasure and business coverage.
Exclusion for transporting people or cargo for hire. Reading the policy, it
was not crystal clear that this ferry flight would not be commercial. This
was AIG coverage through the AOPA agency. The same company and agent
combination that I happen to have had on my plane for years with no claims
or issues. I called. The AOPA guy said this is done all the time. I asked
him to sign, or get AIG to sign, a simple confirmation letter I faxed him
and fax it back. A couple days went by with several follow up calls asking
where's my fax? Well turns out that no one at AIG wanted to authorize that
letter. Finally I got someone at AIG to say they think this is a commercial
operation after all. So the owner ended up getting the plane down here some
other way, I guess.

"Flighthawk" wrote in message
...
You are going to run into some gray legal areas here. In the past some
flights like this have been construed by the FAA as part 135 flights,
especially if your non-flying friend decides to take another passenger
along
on the flight who thinks its a charter. The best thing to do is check with
your insurance company to make sure. They will make sure everything fits
right. Let us know what they say.

PD


"Stuart King" wrote in message
. com...
I own my airplane.

A friend needs to go somewhere, but is not a pilot.

He can legally use my aircraft without me in it if :

1. He hires an appropriately rated commercial pilot...and

2. Pays all "direct" operating costs for the flight (gas, oil, landing
fees)...and

3. He does not pay me anything.

Yes/No/Other ?

Stuart

Example, here in this or maybe the owning news group somebody wanted someone
to ferry his plane down to its soon to be new owner in my city. I said I'd
do it, just for the fun of it and $150 a day. That $150 would come close to
compensating me for my time compared to my day job, but is the going rate
for ferry services. But I was not about to do it unless there was insurance
coverage. The owner had the usual pleasure and business coverage.
Exclusion for transporting people or cargo for hire. Reading the policy, it
was not crystal clear that this ferry flight would not be commercial. This
was AIG coverage through the AOPA agency. The same company and agent
combination that I happen to have had on my plane for years with no claims
or issues. I called. The AOPA guy said this is done all the time. I asked
him to sign, or get AIG to sign, a simple confirmation letter I faxed him
and fax it back. A couple days went by with several follow up calls asking
where's my fax? Well turns out that no one at AIG wanted to authorize that
letter. Finally I got someone at AIG to say they think this is a commercial
operation after all. So the owner ended up getting the plane down here some
other way, I guess.


Another datapoint - I have AIG coverage and they exclude aerial photography.
Well, does this mean commercial photography (and its attendant risks) or am I
out of luck if some passenger has a camera and takes a picture? My agent said
that passengers (or even me) taking pictures is fine - they are after
commercial operations (which are excluded anyway). So I asked them to sign off
on it. They would not, and the end of it is that AIG says that if there is a
camera on board and there is a crash, I'm not covered.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

(Teacherjh) wrote in
:

So I asked them to sign off on it. They would
not, and the end of it is that AIG says that if there is a camera on
board and there is a crash, I'm not covered.

What's funny (in a non-humorous sense) is that this interpretation is so
ludicrous that I bet you also can not get them to sign an official letter
stating this either!!!

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
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