Six-Place Composite?

Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this. Any bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

Marco,

Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? [...]

Does the Epic LT from www.epicaircraft.com qualify?

Best regards

Kai Glaesner

Marco,

Diamond D-Jet? You said single-engine g, but I think it only has five seats. The Grob
Ranger is in that league, too, albeit with a turboprop. And then there's the Extra 400 - or
is there?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

The D-jet interior as now conceived is a 3-person bench seat in the rear,
but there will be a sideways facing seat that can be used in-flight, but not
for takeoff and landing.

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Marco,

Diamond D-Jet? You said single-engine g, but I think it only has five
seats. The Grob
Ranger is in that league, too, albeit with a turboprop. And then there's
the Extra 400 - or
is there?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Marco Leon (at) wrote:
Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new
certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given
Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this.
Any bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

At a wild guess I'd say Extra, since they already have one

http://www.extraaircraft.com/ea400.asp
http://www.anft.net/f-14/extra400.htm

--
Allen

I guess I was thinking about piston single engine composites. Will the
210,Saratoga and Bonanza be the last six-place pistons out there? It seems
to be a great way for one of these guys to break into the composite market
if they have the stomach for the cost and risk. Otherwise, what's their next
move?

Marco Leon

wrote in message
ups.com...

Marco Leon (at) wrote:
Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new
certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given
Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this.
Any bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

At a wild guess I'd say Extra, since they already have one

http://www.extraaircraft.com/ea400.asp
http://www.anft.net/f-14/extra400.htm

--
Allen

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in message
...
I guess I was thinking about piston single engine composites.

The Extra 400 *is* a piston single engine composite.

Ummm I knew that!

I was thinking of checking before I posted...
What's going on with it?? Is it really a player? Or is it proof that there
really is no market for new six-placers?



"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in message
...
I guess I was thinking about piston single engine composites.

The Extra 400 *is* a piston single engine composite.




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"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...
I was thinking of checking before I posted...
What's going on with it?? Is it really a player? Or is it proof that there
really is no market for new six-placers?

I don't know the latest details. My recollection is that they suspended
production (and Extra might even have done some kind of reorganization), and
are now focusing on the Extra 500 turboprop. I don't think the 400 is still
being produced.

The Extra 400, Piper Meridian, and similar have to some extent been the
victims of poor timing, appearing just as economies around the world
declined (due in no small part to the dot-com bubble burst, but also related
to other factors of course). I would guess that the Meridian was doing
better than the 400, prompting Extra to spend more effort (and money) on the
turboprop version of the 400. But I honestly don't know any of the
specifics; once it became clear I wasn't going to be able to afford the 400
any time soon, I stopped paying attention.

IMHO, there is definitely a market for new design six-seaters. After all,
there's a market for much more expensive aircraft. But cost is an issue (as
always). Since the piston six-seaters have turned out to be so expensive
(the Extra 400 was originally promised to have a price of "only" $800K,
aiming it squarely at the Saratoga and Bonanza, both of which it outperforms
significantly), they are competing with larger, faster twins (which can cost
much less to purchase used than something like the Extra 400, leaving lots
of money left over for operating expenses), as well as turbine models (I
don't doubt that the large number of VLJ's promised has been suppressing the
piston market, as people take a wait-and-see attitude).

So while the market probably exists, it's also probably small, and
especially so until all of the VLJ's have actually been certified and we
find out what the actual price and performance will be (I suspect price will
be much higher than promised, and performance slightly lower, which would
probably put some breath back into the piston 6-place market). If the Extra
400 could have come in at a price competitive with lesser-performing
aircraft, it probably would have done better. But it didn't. So it's
competing with existing aircraft that perform as well or better, and in that
environment, it's not nearly the slam dunk it could have been.

I think that it's still not out of the question to see Cirrus or Lancair
come up with something. They will probably make something more like the
A36/Saratoga, and probably WILL be less expensive, both in terms of purchase
price as well as operating expenses. Their piston six-place probably won't
be pressurized (the Extra 400 surely suffered from sales due to the
pressurization, which increased maintenance expenses slightly, but increased
training and insurance requirements dramatically), might not even have
retractable gear, and so will be much better aligned in terms of expense and
capabilities with the existing 6-place market.

Pete

Based on a Comanche...

http://www.ravinaircraft.com/

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:25:44 -0500, Marco Leon mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:

Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given
Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this. Any
bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?





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