What GA needs

Larry Dighera writes:

Perhaps not, but seed sown the magical moment when a kid experiences
leaving the pavement during his first introductory flight in a Cessna
152 will blossom in the future when his situation is ready for it.

That assumes that he finds it a magical moment. Not everyone does. About 16%
of the population is afraid of flying--and that's in large, stable aircraft,
not tin cans.

Andrew Sarangan writes:

I have heard that argument many times, but I have never seen that
thermodynamic argument presented. I just borrowed the book on Aircraft
Gas Turbine Engines from the library and plan to read it to find out
what the real story is. My suspicion is that the limitation is in the
materials, not thermodynamics.

Measure the heat of a gas turbine exhaust; the difference between that and
ambient inlet temperature is wasted energy. An ideal turbine would extract so
much energy from the heat of combustion that the exhaust would barely be warm,
but we're a long way from a turbine like that.

A small
turbine may sound far fetched now, but I am sure GPS also sounded far
fetched 20 years ago, but became commonplace after heavy military
investment.

Actually, the principles behind GPS were known and accepted half a century
ago. It just took a long time to get a working system perfected--just as
improvements in jet engines tend to be gradual.

Having said that, I know of at least two companies working on small
turbines. One is Innodyn, and the other one is M-dot. The latter one I
believe has some DoD contracts to be build turbines for UAVs. I doubt
these companies would even exist if the basic physics is flawed.

Low efficiency can be compensated by other advantages.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

But the rest of your statement basically boils down to not wanting to learn
something complex. And that can be further reduced to instant gratification.

Not instant gratification, but gratification commensurate with the investment
required. Becoming a pilot is a huge investment for anyone who isn't fairly
obsessed with aviation. There are other endeavors that provide much greater
gratification as compared to the investment of time, money, and effort
required to obtain that gratification.

Matt Barrow writes:

Around here, a two year old 172 goes for $105, wet.

So that's still only 1.5 hours for the cost of a pair of expensive sneakers.
The sneakers will last for months or years; once that 1.5 hours of flying time
is gone, there's nothing.

You know, I _think_ you just showed the attitude that may be behind the
dearth of new students.

It's a pretty reasonable attitude. It's not rational to throw money out the
window. Everyone wants value for his dollar.

Dave J writes:

The reason I think that's remotely relevant is simply because the
people who are going to learn to fly are, well, the above averages,
and they really do have more pressure on their time than in the past.

No, the people who are going to learn to fly are those with a very intense
interest in flying. They may or may not be above average. Usually they will
be average.

Matt Barrow writes:

I'd venture to guess it's advantageous that we don't have such a mental
misfit dashing around in the same skies as the rest of us.

The fewer you become, the less infrastructure you'll have. Eventually there
won't be enough to support your exclusie hobby. So be careful what you wish
for.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:56:01 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:22:51 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:


You say that like Fractional ownership is a new thing. It has been
around for years. We just called it partnerships and flying clubs
in the past.

You are obviously unaware of the recent regulation changes
concerning fractional ownership. You can start your research he



I'm well aware of it.

Well then you've probably noticed that, unlike in the past decades, in
the last few years there are many commercial enterprises and aircraft
manufacturers offering fractional GA aircraft ownership and management
programs:



Are you being dense Larry or just your standard asshole self? YOu can quote
all the Wki sites you like. That doesn't change the fact that fractional
ownership is just an evolution of partnerships and flying clubs.

Dave J wrote:
On Sep 11, 9:59 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:

They have shortened the time it takes to get a certificate that will
let you do what 90% of the private pilots do by about half. So that
is a start.

Agreed.

As far as planes not flying themselves neither do cars. I'll bet you
can take the average driver from today and put him in a car from the
30's and they won't have to much trouble. Except maybe with the
manual transmission.

Yeah, but cars are easy to drive. Actually, as far as basic
transportation, I think airplanes are pretty easy to fly, too. What
makes airplanes different are the squirrely corners of their
envelopes, and the fundamentally fail-unsafe failure mode that comes
from being in the sky, in vehicle that cannot be "pulled over."

And flying will never be the same as driving. It's that third deminsion that
is the issue. And don't think for a second that cars don't have those
squirrely corners of their envelopes. It's just that flying has more hence
the additional training.


But the rest of your statement basically boils down to not wanting
to learn something complex. And that can be further reduced to
instant gratification.

Right! But why must aviation be so complex? It requires a level of
training commensurate with, say, some trades and para-professional
degrees. Should that level of training be the necessary cost of entry?


Some things can only be simplified down so much. Basic flying has been
simplified from 40 required hours to 20. That's pretty damn good and I
really don't see how you could get it any shorter without taking everything
away that makes it worth while to do.



There is a spectrum between instant gratification, and a long, hard
slog uphill. It's not so black and white. People do *learn* to drive.
It doesn't happen instantly, and in fact, if you've watched teenagers
drive recently, I'm sure you realize that it actually takes years to
get really good at it. So people do put in some level of effort.

I just am tired of hearing about how lazy "kids today" are. People
have been muttering about "kids today" forever. Either man has been on
a constant descent to laziness or stupidity, or much more likely, the
notion is absurd. As tempting as it is to go for the first option, the
second is much more likely.

-- dave j

My instant gratification comment isn't aimed only at the kids.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

But the rest of your statement basically boils down to not wanting
to learn something complex. And that can be further reduced to
instant gratification.

Not instant gratification, but gratification commensurate with the
investment required. Becoming a pilot is a huge investment for
anyone who isn't fairly obsessed with aviation. There are other
endeavors that provide much greater gratification as compared to the
investment of time, money, and effort required to obtain that
gratification.

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not obsessed with
aviation. If I were I would have finished the plane I've been building for 5
years a lot sooner.

But it is a good thing you have no desire for gratification at all because
of your mental problems because you have nothing to invest.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

But the rest of your statement basically boils down to not wanting to learn
something complex. And that can be further reduced to instant gratification.

Not instant gratification, but gratification commensurate with the investment
required. Becoming a pilot is a huge investment for anyone who isn't fairly
obsessed with aviation. There are other endeavors that provide much greater
gratification as compared to the investment of time, money, and effort
required to obtain that gratification.

Are you back again, spouting from your tiny
little point of reference?

How can you claim to have a clue as to what
gratifies others? You never soloed and you
never will so you'll never know. You just
sit at your little screen and figure that
everyone else leads the same pathetic life
with the same pathetic gratification as you.