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#21
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"t_mark" wrote in message news:LjUYb.27752$Zt4.9307@okepread01...
Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF. But we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. Probably because there's no need to, at least yet. Here's 'underwhelming' for you in that same period of time. 1. US economy - 11 trillion 2. Japanese economy - 4.7 trillion 3. German economy 1.8 trillion 4 and on down - a bunch of smaller economies, including China at 1.3 trillion. According to the World Almanac 2004: 1. US economy= 10.4 trillion 2. Japanese economy= 3.5 trillion 3. German economy= 2.2 trillion Notice unfair comparison. US equivalent to EU. 01. Austria= 226 billion 02. Belgium= 298 billion 03. Denmark= 156 billion 04. Finland= 1.5 trillion 05. France= 1.5 trillion 06. Germany= 2.2 trillion 07. Greece= 201 billion 08. Ireland= 119 billion 09. Italy= 1.4 trillion 10. Luxembourg= 20 billion 11. Netherlands= 434 billion 12. Portugal= 182 billion 13. Spain= 828 billion 14. Sweden= 227 billion 15. UK= 1.5 trillion That's a total of 11.091 trillion, more than the US economy. The US may be the lone Superpower on paper but our track record post-WW2 isn't that great. Probably because everyone is too scared ****less to screw with us, you ignorant clue****. Uh, let's see. China ****ed with us over the air collision with their fighter in 2001 not releasing the crew or plane immediately. China openly threatens the US with nuclear cruise missiles in the event a carrier battlegroup ever attempts to block an invasion of Taiwan by China in the Taiwan Straight (but I guess you don't read the Asian news, do you?). Iran threatened to shoot down any US or Israeli aircraft that would attempt to bomb its reactor (but I guesss you don't read the Mideast news either) and finally N. Korea threatened all-out war over the US attempting any military attack against its nuclear weapons program. The US did say it would not tolerate a N Korean nuclear bomb but they just laughed in our faces and produced 8 more in addition to the 2 they already had. We did nothing and still do nothing. Furthermore we are moving our troops in S Korea back from the northern border since we know in the event of war N Korea will barrage the south with massive artillery and missiles before attempting to cross with their 1 million man army. Our plans- let the South Korean soldiers bite it while we sit back further south an await the order to strike back. Seoul, meanwhile, would be history. You are the ignorant clue****. Rob |
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#23
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"robert arndt" wrote in message om... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "robert arndt" wrote in message m... The US postwar history: I could only wish that the political decision to change direction eastward would have never come and Sea Lion would have happened. What would have Britain defended itself with then- the Home Guard with pitch forks and shotguns? You should thank God a lone German bomber ditched its bombs on London and saved your nation. Germany could have kept fighting and by the winter of 1940 you would have ran out of pilots and planes- had the Germans not diverted to civilian targets like London. You really are ignorant of the situation in 1940 arent you. The simple reality is that by the end of August 1940 the RAF were STRONGER than at the beginning of the BOB. Quite simply they were building aircraft and training pilots faster than the luftwaffe and more than replacing their losses. Dowdings idea of readiness meant that each squadron should have 15 operational arcraft and twice that number of pilots. There were aircraft to spare and while the pilot situation was tighter there were still around 20 piots per squadron Conversely when Milch surveyed the Luftwaffe front line units at the same time he found that most Luftwaffe units were between 25 and 30% under strength. It was the Luftwaffe that was losing the battle of attrition. The Ju-87's had already been withdrawn and the Me-110's were now having to be escorted by 109's As for Sealion that would have been one of the biggest disasters of German arms Setting aside the fact that Britain had 13 combat ready divisions available in the SE of England there's the little matter of the Royal Navy. The Kriegsmarine could field 1 BB, 1 CA and 10 Destroyers The RN had available 5 BB's , 11 Cruisers and 76 Destroyers. Then of course the RAF has several hundred bomber tasked with repelling the invasion ready for action The Invasion fleet consisted of Rhine barges towed at 4 knots that would have taken 30 hours to make the crossing and would sink in anything much more than flat calm. They of course had no LCT's so there chosen method of moving heavy weapons was to blow off the bows of the barge with HE. Meanwhile the defences of the target chose, Dover , consisted of heavy coastal artillery (14",9.2" 8" and 6" guns) augmented by Army artillery units firing from gun pits behind the town and in and around it were 2 divisions of the Territorial army, 1 Indian Brigade, 1 New Zealan Division, 1 Armoured division equipped with Matilda II tanks that were impervious to anything short of an 88, 1 Canadian division and a further armoured brigde Can you say glug - glug Keith |
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In article ,
Keith Willshaw wrote: equipped with Matilda II tanks that were impervious to anything short of an 88, 1 Canadian division and a further armoured brigde And unless they captured a port intact and could hold it then the germans had no way of getting an 88 across the channel. And as they had no way of holding the navy back (the luftwaffe couldn't even stop the RN lifting troops off a beach at Dunkirk, so if they couldn;t hit *stationary* ships often enough then they certainly wouldn't stop destroyers carving into the invasion barges at 30+ knots, nor the sloops from pouring 100+ shells a minute at the barges. Oggle oggle. -- Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/ "Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas) |
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"robert arndt" wrote in message m... Wars always have unintended consequences. Woodrow Wilson could have let the idiotic Europeans exhaust themselves and make sense of their own mess. Germanys losses after WW2 were tragic for many people caught up in it by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The physical size of the nation became smaller as lands were annexed and latter as tens of millions of ethnic Germans who over 1000 years had built the cities of Eastern Europe were killed, starved, expelled and exterminated from places as far afield as Romania and Russia. Wars are extensions of ideas. Ideologically it is of course not only Germany that was defeated but all people of European ancestry everywhere and any sense of their right to exist and any sense of a right to ethnic self determination. German culture and history is now discredited to such an extent that many Germans hate themselves. The results can be seen in the low birth rate and the indifference of the people to their certain demographic annihilation within the next 3 generations (60 years) The same thing is however happening to the UK and USA. The Americans are caught between and imbecile of a president who is further destroying the middle classes and is engineering yet another amnesty of the illegal Aileen dross (which will be a failure as the 1986 amnesty was) that now infests the country and drains its welfare and hospital systems and doubles its crime rate. (It even increases is diverse and underage mother rate). Their only alternative is an even more despicable and treasonous democrat party who specializes in cultivating ethnic resentments and agglomerating them for electoral gain. European Americans are between a rock and a hard place and they are effectively toast. The same or worse situation persists in the UK where a party of ethno-marxist Quislings called NuLabour is dismantling England and clearing its great cities of the people that the Lufwaffe never cleared. The British who are proud of their fighting spirit in WW2 are really taking pride in the even that is anhilating their descendents. Hitler may have been many things but not even he would have detroyed Englands people as its present Government of politically correct commisars is doing. Nothing will change this insanity because their will always be a Goldberg, Chavez or a Spielberg coating their ethnophobia in love or some other such lie to make sure the dunderheads embrace their own disgrace. The US postwar history: Korea: stalemate Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate Vietnam: LOST Operation Eagle Claw (Iranian Hostage Rescue): Failure Lebanon: Marines blown up- failure Reagan-Bush years: a string of success shooting down a few Libyan MiGs and attacking small puny nations with no AF- Victory? Gulf War I: had to raise a coalition to fight another Third World nation, didn't finish the job which leads to Gulf War II. Kurds and population suffer as a result. The Balkans: another attack on an unworthy adversary. Serbs leave with their armor and military/police units intact. International force needed. Terrorist attack on the USS Cole: failed 9/11: could prevent terrorist attack, 3000 fatalities Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure. Iraq prewar: Fires at US aircraft for 7 years, US retaliates in 1998, Iraq resumes firing at US aircraft for 4 more years Gulf War II: US goes it alone, captures Saddam but cannot get real reconstruction support or troops needed to finish the job due to isolating UN and certain European nations- failure Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF. But we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. In fact China openly threatens the US over Taiwan and is militarily developing systems to defeat our stealth, satellites, and to attack the US with missiles in the future. Iran has threatened the US over its nuclear reactor and N Korea has done the same over its nuclear program which we failed to stop. BTW, try attacking the FSU even at its weakest... they have twice the nukes we have and we all know the history of those that invade Mother Russia. On their turf the US would lose, same in China. So I don't care how many time you say Germany lost. Germany is the size of 1 US state and took on the world. It took everyone with everything to beat them. The US in Vietnam was a Superpower giant with the greatest technology on earth... and lost to peasants walking through the jungle at night in pajamas armed with an AK-47, machetes, mines, grenades and RPGs. The US may be the lone Superpower on paper but our track record post-WW2 isn't that great. Rob |
#27
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"The Enlightenment" wrote in message ... "robert arndt" wrote in message m... Wars always have unintended consequences. Woodrow Wilson could have let the idiotic Europeans exhaust themselves and make sense of their own mess. Germanys losses after WW2 were tragic for many people caught up in it by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The physical size of the nation became smaller as lands were annexed and latter as tens of millions of ethnic Germans who over 1000 years had built the cities of Eastern Europe were killed, starved, expelled and exterminated from places as far afield as Romania and Russia. Thats what tends to happen when you start a genocidal war based on notions of racial superiority and then lose. Wars are extensions of ideas. Ideologically it is of course not only Germany that was defeated but all people of European ancestry everywhere and any sense of their right to exist and any sense of a right to ethnic self determination. This is nonsense. The vast majority of Europeans were VERY happy to see Germany lose. German culture and history is now discredited to such an extent that many Germans hate themselves. The results can be seen in the low birth rate and the indifference of the people to their certain demographic annihilation within the next 3 generations (60 years) The same thing is however happening to the UK and USA. And in Singapore , Japan and Taiwan. Its a function of the fact that people no longer feel the need to have large families to support them in their old age. In the period after the war the German population boomed. remainder of racist nonsense snipped Keith |
#28
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"robert arndt" wrote in message om... "t_mark" wrote in message news:LjUYb.27752$Zt4.9307@okepread01... Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF. But we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. Probably because there's no need to, at least yet. Here's 'underwhelming' for you in that same period of time. 1. US economy - 11 trillion 2. Japanese economy - 4.7 trillion 3. German economy 1.8 trillion 4 and on down - a bunch of smaller economies, including China at 1.3 trillion. According to the World Almanac 2004: 1. US economy= 10.4 trillion 2. Japanese economy= 3.5 trillion 3. German economy= 2.2 trillion Notice unfair comparison. US equivalent to EU. 01. Austria= 226 billion 02. Belgium= 298 billion 03. Denmark= 156 billion 04. Finland= 1.5 trillion 05. France= 1.5 trillion 06. Germany= 2.2 trillion 07. Greece= 201 billion 08. Ireland= 119 billion 09. Italy= 1.4 trillion 10. Luxembourg= 20 billion 11. Netherlands= 434 billion 12. Portugal= 182 billion 13. Spain= 828 billion 14. Sweden= 227 billion 15. UK= 1.5 trillion That's a total of 11.091 trillion, more than the US economy. Wow. And it only took how many soveriegn nations to total up to the US? Fifteen? Yeah, that really makes the US look weak... Given that the combined populations of those fifteen nations was some 385 million people in 2000, versus the US population of around 280 million, what does that indicate in regards to per capita productivity and income? The US may be the lone Superpower on paper but our track record post-WW2 isn't that great. Probably because everyone is too scared ****less to screw with us, you ignorant clue****. Uh, let's see. China ****ed with us over the air collision with their fighter in 2001 not releasing the crew or plane immediately. Did you really think we were going to go to war over that one? Neihter did the Chinese. Idiot. China openly threatens the US with nuclear cruise missiles in the event a carrier battlegroup ever attempts to block an invasion of Taiwan by China in the Taiwan Straight (but I guess you don't read the Asian news, do you?) And China still refrains from conducting such an invasion; they are at present smart enough to realize that tangling with the US is not a smart move. Iran threatened to shoot down any US or Israeli aircraft that would attempt to bomb its reactor (but I guesss you don't read the Mideast news either) Whoopie. So what's new? and finally N. Korea threatened all-out war over the US attempting any military attack against its nuclear weapons program. Uhmmm...one country conducting a military attack on another is usually grounds for war, didn't ya know? The US did say it would not tolerate a N Korean nuclear bomb but they just laughed in our faces and produced 8 more in addition to the 2 they already had. We did nothing and still do nothing. So all of that diplomatic stuff (being conducted with the PRC's participation) is "nothing", huh? Odd how you condemn the US for not continuing to pursue other means in regards to Iraq, but seemingly think we should be streaming across the 38th parallel at the drop of a hat... Furthermore we are moving our troops in S Korea back from the northern border since we know in the event of war N Korea will barrage the south with massive artillery and missiles before attempting to cross with their 1 million man army. And because the ROK Army is judged to be capable of handling the DPRK ground attacks in this modern era. Our plans- let the South Korean soldiers bite it while we sit back further south an await the order to strike back. Seoul, meanwhile, would be history. You are the ignorant clue****. No, you have again demonstrated an acute lack of reasoning skills. Quickly now--which has more combat power, the combined assets of FROKA, SROKA, and TROKA, or the US 2nd ID(-)? As to the future of Seoul... I'll bet you money Seoul will still be a prosperous city long after Pyongyang is a ghosttown at the current pace of events. Brooks Rob |
#29
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"Bernardz" wrote in message news:MPG.1a9f38ff24421b1a98990a@news... In article LjUYb.27752$Zt4.9307@okepread01, says... Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF. But we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. Probably because there's no need to, at least yet. Actually in this, robert arndt is right. No, he is not. Its one thing to take on powers like Iraq, Serbia and N Vietnam but its another to take on nuclear powers. The situation with crazies like N Korea is very disturbing. We have a situation now where there are countries that are safe to attack and others where it is not. "Safe to attack"? Hardly. The US suffered more casualties on 9-11 to improvised weapons than we have ever suffered to enemy nuclear attacks; any number of nations could replicate or conduct a similar atrocity. Nuclear weapons are as much an anchor around the owners' neck as they are an asset, especially when dealing with a US that they can't reliably ensure their own weapons can even reach. The key issue is the determination of the scope of the threat, and its immediacy, versus our resources and constraints, and with the diplomatic aspect tossed in as well. The US went into Afghanistan and Iraq--and gee whiz, the Libyans and Iranians suddenly became amenable to peaceful diplomatic solutions. The DPRK is still on the burner, but without the support of either the CIS or the PRC it is only a matter of time before we get what we want--so why start pounding the swords on the shields? Brooks |
#30
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Kevin Brooks wrote: "robert arndt" wrote in message om... Korean nuclear bomb but they just laughed in our faces and produced 8 more in addition to the 2 they already had. We did nothing and still do nothing. So all of that diplomatic stuff (being conducted with the PRC's participation) is "nothing", huh? Odd how you condemn the US for not continuing to pursue other means in regards to Iraq, but seemingly think we should be streaming across the 38th parallel at the drop of a hat... Brooks, obvious that you just don't get it. Whatever the US does is wrong. If we go to war, we shouldn't have. If we don't go to war, we should have. Please, do keep up. ;-) |
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